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Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 25th, 2015, 1:54 am
by Alec Smart
Greta wrote:
3uGH7D4MLj wrote:That makes me wonder, is it class, politics, elitism? -- bigotry?
Can't you see that this thread is about laughing at human goofiness? Country music is goofy. That's okay, not a hanging offence, but it is something we can joke about. Do you *really* believe Alec - and we are talking about Alec here - is serious when he talks about the need not to "tolerate" country music? I am in full agreement with him, of course. We should clap the bastards in irons until they desist - every damn check-shirted and fringe skirted guitar-wielder and caterwauler :P

The only serious criticism made all thread is that country music and its deliberate lack of flair bores a lot of people, although Alec has a particular allergy to line dancing. I expect that in a previous life he was trampled to death by line dancers.

Your bigotry hypothesis looks like an attempt to imbue philosophical meaning to a joke. Plenty of people who find country music to be dull and prosaic will respond positively to a lively hillbilly romp. Yet hillbillies are the epitome of what anti-country music people are supposed to be prejudiced against. Identity politics exists in music as it does in everything humans do, but only to a great extent in very young people, after which time identity tends to be more associated with relationships, work and skills.

-- Updated 24 Oct 2015, 20:49 to add the following --

JKlint, I liked Comanche's raw sparseness but I couldn't sit through it.
This is my nomination for the best post in the thread.

Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 25th, 2015, 10:07 pm
by LuckyR
Alec Smart wrote:
Greta wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

Can't you see that this thread is about laughing at human goofiness? Country music is goofy. That's okay, not a hanging offence, but it is something we can joke about. Do you *really* believe Alec - and we are talking about Alec here - is serious when he talks about the need not to "tolerate" country music? I am in full agreement with him, of course. We should clap the bastards in irons until they desist - every damn check-shirted and fringe skirted guitar-wielder and caterwauler :P

The only serious criticism made all thread is that country music and its deliberate lack of flair bores a lot of people, although Alec has a particular allergy to line dancing. I expect that in a previous life he was trampled to death by line dancers.

Your bigotry hypothesis looks like an attempt to imbue philosophical meaning to a joke. Plenty of people who find country music to be dull and prosaic will respond positively to a lively hillbilly romp. Yet hillbillies are the epitome of what anti-country music people are supposed to be prejudiced against. Identity politics exists in music as it does in everything humans do, but only to a great extent in very young people, after which time identity tends to be more associated with relationships, work and skills.

-- Updated 24 Oct 2015, 20:49 to add the following --

JKlint, I liked Comanche's raw sparseness but I couldn't sit through it.
This is my nomination for the best post in the thread.
IMO, it's OK, I mean it bears "toleration".

Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 26th, 2015, 4:34 am
by Greta
Some are more tolerant than others :)

Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 26th, 2015, 10:18 am
by 3uGH7D4MLj
Greta wrote:
3uGH7D4MLj wrote:That makes me wonder, is it class, politics, elitism? -- bigotry?
Can't you see that this thread is about laughing at human goofiness? Country music is goofy. That's okay, not a hanging offence, but it is something we can joke about. Do you *really* believe Alec - and we are talking about Alec here - is serious when he talks about the need not to "tolerate" country music? I am in full agreement with him, of course. We should clap the bastards in irons until they desist - every damn check-shirted and fringe skirted guitar-wielder and caterwauler :P

The only serious criticism made all thread is that country music and its deliberate lack of flair bores a lot of people, although Alec has a particular allergy to line dancing. I expect that in a previous life he was trampled to death by line dancers.

Your bigotry hypothesis looks like an attempt to imbue philosophical meaning to a joke. Plenty of people who find country music to be dull and prosaic will respond positively to a lively hillbilly romp. Yet hillbillies are the epitome of what anti-country music people are supposed to be prejudiced against. Identity politics exists in music as it does in everything humans do, but only to a great extent in very young people, after which time identity tends to be more associated with relationships, work and skills.
I have full respect and admiration for Alec's (and your) unmoving ironic stance. It brings a nice jokey tone to the discussion.

You're saying that there's nothing more than that going on.

I don't agree. I base my take on observations in my region of the world. We live on different continents, so there's that. Bigotry? absolutely worth considering.

Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 26th, 2015, 2:22 pm
by Alec Smart
3uGH7D4MLj wrote: I have full respect and admiration for Alec's (and your) unmoving ironic stance. It brings a nice jokey tone to the discussion.

You're saying that there's nothing more than that going on.

I don't agree. I base my take on observations in my region of the world. We live on different continents, so there's that. Bigotry? absolutely worth considering.
There is a serious element to this thread but it is directed more at the American "red neck" devotees rather than the music itself. The apreciation of music is purely a matter of taste and I just happen to think country music is awful.

Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 26th, 2015, 5:13 pm
by Rederic
Greta wrote:
Belinda wrote:Isn't country music a little too repetitive in form ?

One can have a refrain but when there is no variation between the repetitions I find my attention wandering. Maybe country music varies in quality and I have heard only the more banal sort.
I get bored with it too. Aside from hillbilly romps, country music is all about the words and I've never been good at following wordy lyrics; if your attention slips for a moment you miss a crucial passage, then the song meaning can be lost.

So, to avoid distraction, each country song more or less finishes as it starts with few, if any, surprises. A buildup if you're lucky and a relative lack of flair, flamboyance, daring, excitement and imagination - delivered with exaggerated a lack of affectation to the point of affectation.

In truth, all music is OK. There's a saying that "hunger makes the best sauce". If you're starving then a Big Mac may seem like the most beautiful substance that ever passed your lips. So if I was deprived of music for a long time I would no doubt find Toby Keith's music to be nectar for the ears. Fortunately, there's plenty of other music around :).

Think of people hose who have lived through dictatorships where the only music approved of involves tiresome praises to a deity or militaristic ditties about some "glorious" leader (ie. butcher). To the oppressed citizens of such places Tammy Wynette would be a source of excitement and beauty rather than insomnia aid.

-- Updated 22 Oct 2015, 17:09 to add the following --

Typo last para:

"Think of people hose who have lived" ... there is no hose.
Earlier in the thread you were espousing the virtues of blues music against country, now you criticise country music for being too repetitive. Have you ever studied twelve bar blues music. Personally, I love it, but you can't get more repetitive than this. Also, many orchestral music pieces start with a theme & then go on to play variations on this same theme.

You admit that you don't like words in music. Is this your excuse for your particular dislike of country music, or does it apply to blues music, pop, opera or any other type of oral music?

You could just admit that you just don't like it without wrapping it up in your musical snobbery.

Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 26th, 2015, 7:21 pm
by LumiNara
To ask that "country music, is it OK?"; you assume that there is something wrong with country music. Is this the case? What do you believe wrong with a simple genre of music that has been 'round longer than quite a few other genres such as; punk, heavy, house, dubstep, pop, and so on so forth. These such genres diverged from similar forms of music and you could argue, country. It's an easy argument to even go as far as rock could have come from country music. They have similar musical arrangements and a feel to most of their songs. All genres of music at some point were experimental for their times and not all around to experience that liked such experimentation, but who and at what time is to say what could be wrong with one simple genre of music? Or even what could be right.

Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 26th, 2015, 11:08 pm
by Greta
Some of you are like lawyers are trying to find loopholes in my "story". My metaphysical eyes seem to be too close together.

Re blues: you can enjoy blues while entirely disregarding the lyrics. Besides, there's usually only a few words in each tune most times.

That's the rub - how to make music that is alive while not distracting from the lyrics. My measure for music of interest (usually) is, if the vocals were sung in another language would be music still be compelling?

Every now and then a lyric will grab me. Pink Floyd's in Dark Side of the Moon, for example - brilliant! But so was the music. And the words were clearly enunciated and delivered at a civilised pace that allowed the listener to still soak up the music.

Why aren't country fans who reject other forms considered to be snobbish? Hmmm ....

Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 27th, 2015, 3:24 am
by Jklint
Greta wrote: My measure for music of interest (usually) is, if the vocals were sung in another language would be music still be compelling?
Why not ask people who pay dearly to attend opera performances who understand neither Italian, German, French or Russian. The same goes for listening to folk songs from all over. In fact most people prefer to listen to the original language even if a translation were available the reason for which is simple. The inflections of language are part of the sound and in music it's the 'sound' which takes priority.

I have no interest in trying to convince anyone of this but your question is rather weird when considering all the people who enjoy the music and the voices without having to know the language. Sensitivities vary so who cares. There are those who would give up Beethoven for Sid Vicious.

Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 27th, 2015, 6:25 am
by Greta
Jklint wrote:... your question is rather weird when considering all the people who enjoy the music and the voices without having to know the language. Sensitivities vary so who cares. There are those who would give up Beethoven for Sid Vicious.
Then maybe we should release an album of country greats sung in Welsh and we'll see how the sales go without the music relying on words to carry it.

Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 27th, 2015, 6:40 am
by Rederic
Greta wrote:
Jklint wrote:... your question is rather weird when considering all the people who enjoy the music and the voices without having to know the language. Sensitivities vary so who cares. There are those who would give up Beethoven for Sid Vicious.
Then maybe we should release an album of country greats sung in Welsh and we'll see how the sales go without the music relying on words to carry it.
Feel free, but I'd have to listen to it before I bought it.

Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 27th, 2015, 4:47 pm
by Greta
It's now time to speak about the snobbery of country fans regarding jazz, fusion, free jazz, and experimental music and progressive musics.

Why are you country fans so snobbish against these wonderful forms of music? If you don't like them, why not?

Rederic, you can start ...

Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 27th, 2015, 7:57 pm
by Rederic
OK. I listen to country, blues, rock, some pop, folk, trad jazz & classical. I love chamber & quartet music by most of the big composers but especially baroque. I don't listen to much dance or electronic music because I'm an old git & prefer my music played by human musicians. Notice I don't wrap it up with pseudo explanations. I just plain don't like it.

Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 27th, 2015, 8:27 pm
by Greta
Rederic wrote:OK. I listen to country, blues, rock, some pop, folk, trad jazz & classical. I love chamber & quartet music by most of the big composers but especially baroque. I don't listen to much dance or electronic music because I'm an old git & prefer my music played by human musicians. Notice I don't wrap it up with pseudo explanations. I just plain don't like it.
I answered a question honestly and you criticise me for "pseudo explanations", as though you believe you can read my mind. You then fail to answer a clear question put to you - and then paint your failure to understand or analyse your responses to music as a virtue. Are you afraid that such analysis will "spoil the magic"?

So I'll ask again - why don't you like modern jazz, free jazz, experimental music and progressive rock? No more avoidance or getting competitive and pretending to be more honest or virtuous - just try responding without the attitude.

Re: Country music, is it OK?

Posted: October 28th, 2015, 7:41 am
by Rederic
Greta wrote:
Rederic wrote:OK. I listen to country, blues, rock, some pop, folk, trad jazz & classical. I love chamber & quartet music by most of the big composers but especially baroque. I don't listen to much dance or electronic music because I'm an old git & prefer my music played by human musicians. Notice I don't wrap it up with pseudo explanations. I just plain don't like it.
I answered a question honestly and you criticise me for "pseudo explanations", as though you believe you can read my mind. You then fail to answer a clear question put to you - and then paint your failure to understand or analyse your responses to music as a virtue. Are you afraid that such analysis will "spoil the magic"?

So I'll ask again - why don't you like modern jazz, free jazz, experimental music and progressive rock? No more avoidance or getting competitive and pretending to be more honest or virtuous - just try responding without the attitude.
Because I like to listen to music that I enjoy. I don't want to be challenged by music. I don't talk about the supposed political or cultural reasons for disliking a genre of music, that's just nonsense. We're all products of our upbringing & words are important to me. In the UK we're brought up with books, poetry & music separately & together. Perhaps it's different in Australia?