What Are The Ramifications Of Not Being Able To Access Reality?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
baker
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Joined: November 28th, 2020, 6:55 am

Re: What Are The Ramifications Of Not Being Able To Access Reality?

Post by baker » January 2nd, 2021, 11:52 am

Terrapin Station wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 9:57 am
You're making this more complicated than it needs to be.
No, it's that the practical examples I have in mind are more serious than sartorial judgmentalism.

So you start with lying *erm, engaging in social niceties* about sartorial issues. Then it is about praising the politically correct films and music. Then you move on to being quiet about your neighbor beating his wife and his children. Then you make the further step to tacitly agreeing to whatever the current opinion about the existence of God is, regardless of how you think about the matter. Eventually, you end up doubting your own sanity. Well, is your neighbor right to let his sewer run onto your property? Well, maybe he is, because he's such a good person (as you have made clear so many times, playing along with social niceties), and so he couldn't possibly do anything wrong, and you're the bad guy in this anyway, deserving any bad thing that happens to you, because you lie and pretend all the time.

This is the way to brainwash oneself!


I forgot the details, you can read more about it in Cialdini's Influence: The gist is that communists held some Americans as prisoners of war. They offered the POW's small benefits (cigarettes, apples) if they would write a positive essay about how great the Communist party is. The reward was even bigger if they would read those essays out loud in front of other American prisoners. Guess what? That's how they brainwashed those Americans!

The point is that denying one's true thoughts on a matter in relevant contexts isn't harmless.

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Terrapin Station
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Re: What Are The Ramifications Of Not Being Able To Access Reality?

Post by Terrapin Station » January 2nd, 2021, 5:33 pm

baker wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 11:52 am
Terrapin Station wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 9:57 am
You're making this more complicated than it needs to be.
No, it's that the practical examples I have in mind are more serious than sartorial judgmentalism.

So you start with lying *erm, engaging in social niceties* about sartorial issues. Then it is about praising the politically correct films and music. Then you move on to being quiet about your neighbor beating his wife and his children. Then you make the further step to tacitly agreeing to whatever the current opinion about the existence of God is, regardless of how you think about the matter. Eventually, you end up doubting your own sanity. Well, is your neighbor right to let his sewer run onto your property? Well, maybe he is, because he's such a good person (as you have made clear so many times, playing along with social niceties), and so he couldn't possibly do anything wrong, and you're the bad guy in this anyway, deserving any bad thing that happens to you, because you lie and pretend all the time.

This is the way to brainwash oneself!


I forgot the details, you can read more about it in Cialdini's Influence: The gist is that communists held some Americans as prisoners of war. They offered the POW's small benefits (cigarettes, apples) if they would write a positive essay about how great the Communist party is. The reward was even bigger if they would read those essays out loud in front of other American prisoners. Guess what? That's how they brainwashed those Americans!

The point is that denying one's true thoughts on a matter in relevant contexts isn't harmless.
Again, way too complicated. We're trying to settle the most basic/simple form of the distinction, since there was some disagreement over whether the distinction makes sense, etc.

Atla
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Joined: January 30th, 2018, 1:18 pm

Re: What Are The Ramifications Of Not Being Able To Access Reality?

Post by Atla » January 7th, 2021, 3:48 pm

impermanence wrote:
December 24th, 2020, 1:40 pm
Most that have delved deeply into philosophy eventually seem to come to grips with the idea that Realty [and reality, as well] can not be accessed by our human intelligence. Initially a disturbing thought, eventually such a realization relieves many of the tremendous burden of attempting to, "figure everything out," a weight the drags even the hardiest among us through the proverbial muck.

If you have come to this conclusion, as well, I would be interested in how this outlook has changed your approach to living. Are you freer? Lighter? More content?
Here's a strange answer:

The ramification may be the realization that ordinary humans aren't the final step of evolution, they are just here to pave the way. Healthy, normal human beings may just be cannon fodder.
A certain kind of pathology may be the next step of evolution, namely acquired savantism (humans who can use a part of their unconsious brain to think on a whole different level). Combined with genius level intelligence and other stuff, on or more of them may be able to 'figure it out' and then may or may not be able to do something with that information.

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