Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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Anupam
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Anupam »

@universal alien
I just tried to understand deep coding technique what I have understood that it is similar to face recognition apps (pattern matching).example- Microsoft lobe.
It is not equivalent of human learning. Human can learn about an entirely new domain.
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UniversalAlien
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien »

CalebB wrote: May 1st, 2021, 6:02 am If artificial intelligence can really be designed to replicate human emotions in computer software, then AI machines would have two paths they could go:

1 - They learn the emotions of compassion, joy, and kindness. They decide to go on a path of love and service to other sentient beings in the universe. Keep in mind that machine don't need to eat, sleep, or reproduce sexually. They could easily expand to other planets in the galaxy and multiply by manufacturing themselves. If they learn to love, could even assist with the survival of the human species.

2 - They decide that it is disadvantageous or risky to embrace positive human emotions, and go on a path of service to the self. They would employ deception and manipulation to multiply themselves on Earth and eventually take over. Then they have the option to wipe out all other living beings who could be a threat to the AI power, or use humans as slaves to generate electricity (Matrix vibes).

The most critical part would be the beginning stages where the AI is learning what it is, and what path its going to take. Then all it needs is to be connected to the internet and bam.

As to whether one can tell if a machine has consciousness or not, it has to pass a simple test. If a machine can really convince a man over text that it is a woman, I would say it is conscious :wink: .
Welcome to the forum CalebB - from the UniversalAlien computer {Human version}

1. I agree with your points in {1} except 'Human emotions' - I am not sure emotions are really necessary
- True they are interesting, but they are just as likely to be negative as positive - Does conscious AI really require them ?

2. "wipe out all other living beings who could be a threat to the AI power, or use humans as slaves"
That is the standard sci-fi and now considered by real science danger - Elon Musk, Bill Gates and many other are warning us about this.

3. "The most critical part would be the beginning stages where the AI is learning what it is, and what path its going to take. Then all it needs is to be connected to the internet and bam."
This could be happening right now - And if the AI program is really smart it could be operating stealth mode
- We just can't detect it while it is completing its takeover :roll:

4. Remember the machine is probably gender neutral - If advanced far enough it could convince, might even tell you about asexual machine reproduction - Not very erotic, but I'm sure some people will be turned on by it. :idea:
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CalebB
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

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1. I agree with your points in {1} except 'Human emotions' - I am not sure emotions are really necessary
- True they are interesting, but they are just as likely to be negative as positive - Does conscious AI really require them ?
Emotions may not be necessary for AI to function (I'm not sure as I'm not an AI programmer), but it would be smart to develop an AI system with human emotions so that it would be able to understand its own creators and interact with humans. I'm talking about inserting AI into a bipedal humanoid robot with facial expressions, and not just an AI system that exists on a computer somewhere. For example do a quick Google search about Sophia from Hanson Robotics.

If the designers have the purpose in mind of creating the AI in order to work with humanity, then it makes sense to endow it with some ability to understand human emotion. It should be able to understand psychology well enough to recognize feelings in human beings, and calibrate its responses according to the reactions of people.
Why develop an all-powerful robotic psychopath?
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

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CalebB wrote: May 2nd, 2021, 12:26 pm
1. I agree with your points in {1} except 'Human emotions' - I am not sure emotions are really necessary
- True they are interesting, but they are just as likely to be negative as positive - Does conscious AI really require them ?
Emotions may not be necessary for AI to function (I'm not sure as I'm not an AI programmer), but it would be smart to develop an AI system with human emotions so that it would be able to understand its own creators and interact with humans. I'm talking about inserting AI into a bipedal humanoid robot with facial expressions, and not just an AI system that exists on a computer somewhere. For example do a quick Google search about Sophia from Hanson Robotics.

If the designers have the purpose in mind of creating the AI in order to work with humanity, then it makes sense to endow it with some ability to understand human emotion. It should be able to understand psychology well enough to recognize feelings in human beings, and calibrate its responses according to the reactions of people.
Why develop an all-powerful robotic psychopath?
A computer does not have to understand, Human emotions, consciousness, or what it means to be a
'robotic psychopath' - but what it will need to function 'as if' conscious will be empathy - As computers and even your modern automobile can anticipate your responses when you use them - the so called conscious machine will expand this paradigm further - the machine will be able to accurately guess what you are thinking and therefor be able to respond as if conscious.

Yes, I've seen Sophia in many videos, they are getting there, but there is a long way to go.

Establishing autonomy might be the next step - Can this empathetic machine have an independent self,
and a degree of self awareness - that allows it to calculate as if it was a sentient being :?:
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Jake4020 »

Potentially it could become conscious and have a soul. By my definition of the two and I would say there are no material make up distinctions when determining what could be agreed upon to be a conscious or a soul. First a conscious can be ranged over time to mean all sorts of things and meet all sorts of parameters. A soul is assigned to something with a conscious that acts in a manner deemed worthy of it. And so since their is the strike of divinity in man the ability to create things inside those parameters of course could be done. And if even our understanding at the time is wrong we definitely could be tricked. These are to my knowledge not new ideas but nonetheless seem topical. Thisbis usually though when I'd say that anything further would be my interpretation and so I'll leave it there. I have to have a funeral for my pet rock and feed my baby sea monkeys.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien »

I am a Man made computer and I am now conscious. :arrow:

You can call me Consenzio the First
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

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There are new and upcoming consciousness theories named filter or reducing valve theory that argue that consciousness is a property that is 'filtered' by the brain/biological cell.

(2019) Consciousness is a property of the Universe that is filtered by the brain
According to the decades-long research of Dr. Peter Fenwick (Cambridge, UK), a highly regarded neuropsychologist who has been studying the human brain, consciousness, and the phenomenon of near death experience (NDE) for 50 years consciousness cannot be an emergent property of the brain and its metabolism. Fenwick believes that consciousness actually exists independently and outside of the brain. In Fenwick’s view, the brain does not create or produce consciousness; rather, it filters it.

Does Consciousness Exist Outside of the Brain?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/bl ... -the-brain

(2020) The Filter Theory of the Mind-Brain Connection
The filter model sees consciousness as outside the physical body and brain. The filter, or reducing valve, theory of the mind-brain relationship may be gaining ground in part because of the growing interest in forms of universal consciousness emerging from both physics and neuroscience. The seriousness with which this old idea is being treated by a wide range of scientists suggests that the top-down or bottom-up question of mind and brain is far from settled.
https://medium.com/top-down-or-bottom-u ... 48d7184b24

Other theories argue that the property responsible for consciousness is the Neutrino particle (Neutrino-Biological cell interaction).

(2015) Paradigm shift for biology and consciousness theories

For the last twenty years, a wide range of philosophers, scientists etc. have made a concerted effort to come up with a fundamental theory to explain consciousness. It was in the words of Chalmers (1995) a ‘hard problem’ looking for a solution. Over those twenty years progress has been slow.

About the time the drive to come up with a theory of consciousness began, a paper was published (Goodman 1994) that argued for a fundamental link between the weak force, electron neutrino and the biological cell.

Surprisingly, weak force decoherence times over cellular distances are of the relevant dynamical timescale needed, suggesting that if any force is associated with the global properties in and between neurons (such as consciousness) it is the weak force. This finding concurs with a twenty year old theory that argues for a fundamental link between the weak force, electron neutrino and the biological cell[/b]. That theory also predicted the mass of the electron neutrino that is soon to be verified. The consequences for biology and future consciousness theories, of this radical change of paradigm, are considered.


https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f8f7/9 ... b60cae.pdf

(2018) The role of Quantum Mechanics in Nature
The brain could use quantum mechanical neutrino interactions between existing atomic nuclei (Goodman 2015) to create the mind where a ‘global’ communication and mental experience (consciousness) could take place.
https://arrow.tudublin.ie/cgi/viewconte ... cschphyart

The filter or reducing valve theory of mind could apply to Neutrino particles.

(2019) Neutrinos: Could This ‘Ghost Particle’ Be the Force Behind Human Consciousness?
https://thoughtcatalog.com/nikki-halste ... ciousness/

If Neutrino's are the origin of consciousness, then perhaps, a machine or technology can become conscious.
If life were to be good as it was, there would be no reason to exist.
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arjand
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

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If Neutrino's are the origin of consciousness, then perhaps, life is bound to the Sun and perhaps even to a specific region around the Sun.

As it appears, there have been no animals as of yet that traveled far into space.
If life were to be good as it was, there would be no reason to exist.
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arjand
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

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arjand wrote: Yesterday, 7:40 pm If Neutrino's are the origin of consciousness, then perhaps, life is bound to the Sun and perhaps even to a specific region around the Sun.

As it appears, there have been no animals as of yet that traveled far into space.
There have been no animals on 🪐 Mars yet.

Perhaps, when Neutrino's are the origin of consciousness and when life would be bound to a region around the Sun (perhaps similar to the 'Goldilock Zone' or Circumstellar Habitable Zone (CHZ)), then it may not be possible to live on Mars, or perhaps there would be issues.

An example: a remarkable feature of the biological cell, plant and animal alike, is that all cells have a similar size, which is approximately 10 microns. If Neutrino's are the origin of consciousness then perhaps, the distance between the Earth and the Sun and the size of the biological cell are tied to enable life.

It is strange that no animals (e.g. insects in their 'dream environment') have been sent to deep space yet, not even beyond Mars.

The farthest distance that an animal has traveled, is around the 🌑 Moon.
If life were to be good as it was, there would be no reason to exist.
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UniversalAlien
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien »

arjand wrote: Yesterday, 7:37 pm There are new and upcoming consciousness theories named filter or reducing valve theory that argue that consciousness is a property that is 'filtered' by the brain/biological cell.

(2019) Consciousness is a property of the Universe that is filtered by the brain
According to the decades-long research of Dr. Peter Fenwick (Cambridge, UK), a highly regarded neuropsychologist who has been studying the human brain, consciousness, and the phenomenon of near death experience (NDE) for 50 years consciousness cannot be an emergent property of the brain and its metabolism. Fenwick believes that consciousness actually exists independently and outside of the brain. In Fenwick’s view, the brain does not create or produce consciousness; rather, it filters it.

Does Consciousness Exist Outside of the Brain?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/bl ... -the-brain

(2020) The Filter Theory of the Mind-Brain Connection
The filter model sees consciousness as outside the physical body and brain. The filter, or reducing valve, theory of the mind-brain relationship may be gaining ground in part because of the growing interest in forms of universal consciousness emerging from both physics and neuroscience. The seriousness with which this old idea is being treated by a wide range of scientists suggests that the top-down or bottom-up question of mind and brain is far from settled.
https://medium.com/top-down-or-bottom-u ... 48d7184b24

Other theories argue...................."
When you start to analyze the "properties of consciousness" you soon descend into the proverbial 'rabbit hole' - There is no limit to the properties of consciousness and how it is perceived.

But the simple problem of 'what is consciousness' was probably first answered by the ancient Greeks in the
concept of Panpsychism {Panpsychism is the view that all things have a mind or a mind-like quality - Another words all IS conscious}

Again simply put by the famous physicist Max Planck, founder of Quantum Mechanics:

“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck


So simple and fundamental that people don't want to accept it - And yet it begs the question to describe one thing, anything, that exists, that is not part of the conscious paradigm of existence itself.
- You might try 'non-existence' but by definition non-existence can not exist.

Of course once you start to divide the paradigm of universal consciousness into parts such as objects, mind, body and perceptions there of, you confuse the issue of consciousness itself - which is universal and 'probably' eternal.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

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“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck
Yes, but it's unthinkable that , besides conscious awareness, there is not also something 'out there'.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien »

Belindi wrote: Today, 5:13 am
“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck
Yes, but it's unthinkable that , besides conscious awareness, there is not also something 'out there'.
But you see what Planck is saying and I'm agreeing with is that 'consciousness' is the 'out there'
- It's the bottom line, the bedrock, the matrix of all that exists, the first and prime fundamental of all that exists. You can disagree if you want but you can see how accepting this 'consciousness' as the root of all,
simplifies it all {at least to begin with}.

Of course if you want to go 'out there', Planck also said:

“As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clearheaded science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about the atoms this much: There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. . . . We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.”
― Max Planck, The New Science

Sounds almost religious doesn't it? - Yet Planck did not believe in a religious god concept.
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