The self beyond thought, sensation, and experience

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
popeye1945
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Re: The self beyond thought, sensation, and experience

Post by popeye1945 »

My view is not incomplete the world is not a projection of the mind the world is a cognitive representation of the bodily experience of what it is capable of sensing. I agree the world has a relative existence and this is because subject and object stand or fall together. If you are trying to make the two views agree this won't happen, for one thing, I do not personally agree there is anything eternal anything immortal. So, if finding my view correct is dependent upon it agreeing with the view you find in the Upanishads of course you won't find it correct. Again, there is nothing mystical in my view represented here.
popeye1945
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Re: The self beyond thought, sensation, and experience

Post by popeye1945 »

AmericanKestrel wrote: June 9th, 2021, 5:45 pm
popeye1945 wrote: June 9th, 2021, 3:37 pm AmericanKestrel,
LOL!!! That's funny but if you understand that the physical world as object is half of your cognitive function. It is the fuel the brain runs upon in order to produce the mind. That is why Schopenhauer says subject and object stand or fall together. Whatever is outside you is the physical world including your own body. The mind's first object is the body and it is only through the body that the mind knows a physical world. PS; you still see a dog or a tree or a waterfall.
The body-mind complex and the world is not your true self. You have to look within, not outwards, to find your Self.
AmericanKestrel,
Well, have you looked within, and if so, what did you find, what does this self look like or of what is it composed, again your view taken from the Upanishads is a mystical one. If you are content with a mystical view that is fine, but You will never make the two views agree.
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AmericanKestrel
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Re: The self beyond thought, sensation, and experience

Post by AmericanKestrel »

popeye1945 wrote: June 10th, 2021, 4:07 am
AmericanKestrel wrote: June 9th, 2021, 5:45 pm
popeye1945 wrote: June 9th, 2021, 3:37 pm AmericanKestrel,
LOL!!! That's funny but if you understand that the physical world as object is half of your cognitive function. It is the fuel the brain runs upon in order to produce the mind. That is why Schopenhauer says subject and object stand or fall together. Whatever is outside you is the physical world including your own body. The mind's first object is the body and it is only through the body that the mind knows a physical world. PS; you still see a dog or a tree or a waterfall.
The body-mind complex and the world is not your true self. You have to look within, not outwards, to find your Self.
AmericanKestrel,
Well, have you looked within, and if so, what did you find, what does this self look like or of what is it composed, again your view taken from the Upanishads is a mystical one. If you are content with a mystical view that is fine, but You will never make the two views agree.
Dont forget Schopenhauer himself was quite impressed with the revelations in the Upanishad and mentioned them in his writings. He never explained what Will is and that is a hole in his philosophy. The concept of Advaita is sound and the realization arises from complete understanding and meditation on the concept. This realization brings peace and harmony within, which no amount of materialism can bring. Atma is indescribable because there is nothing to compare it to.
"The Serpent did not lie."
popeye1945
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Re: The self beyond thought, sensation, and experience

Post by popeye1945 »

AmericanKestrel,
I am not denying the value of the philosophy of the Upanishads but it is a mixture of philosophy and religion and like all religions has that irrational quality that indescribable something not in time and space. I take the philosophy and leave the religion.
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AmericanKestrel
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Re: The self beyond thought, sensation, and experience

Post by AmericanKestrel »

popeye1945 wrote: June 10th, 2021, 5:53 pm AmericanKestrel,
I am not denying the value of the philosophy of the Upanishads but it is a mixture of philosophy and religion and like all religions has that irrational quality that indescribable something not in time and space. I take the philosophy and leave the religion.
Upanishads is philosophy of the self. It is not religion, there is no such religion. I dont think you have a sound understanding of all that you are stating.
"The Serpent did not lie."
popeye1945
Posts: 587
Joined: October 22nd, 2020, 2:22 am
Favorite Philosopher: Alfred North Whitehead
Location: canada

Re: The self beyond thought, sensation, and experience

Post by popeye1945 »

AmericanKestrel wrote: June 10th, 2021, 6:57 pm
popeye1945 wrote: June 10th, 2021, 5:53 pm AmericanKestrel,
I am not denying the value of the philosophy of the Upanishads but it is a mixture of philosophy and religion and like all religions has that irrational quality that indescribable something not in time and space. I take the philosophy and leave the religion.
Upanishads is philosophy of the self. It is not religion, there is no such religion. I dont think you have a sound understanding of all that you are stating.
AmericanKestrel,
Yes, the Upanishads are of the Hindu faith with a tradition many thousands of years old. Although they have many many gods what they really believe is the there is a basic energy of which these gods are but manifestations.
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