Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

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Sy Borg
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Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by Sy Borg »

Some of you may have noticed that I have mentioned a recent peak experience a few times. At the time of the PE, late 2012, I wrote a diary entry about it (below). I was less skeptical in my thinking at the time than I am now, and I find some extrapolations hard to relate to, but there's aspects that still internally feel true, although I'm less confident in my extrapolations.

I would be interested to know about others' peak experiences. I'd be interested to know if anyone here has felt anything similar. The day after the PE I Googled aspects of what I felt and thought at the time and it seems it's pretty common. I have edited out the most gratuitous waffle; text in square brackets are afterthoughts or censoring of non G-rated language:
Must write this because it’s already fading fast. I’ve had my second [peak] experience ...

... I was trying to get my mind to a point where it was entirely still and there would be no thought or emotions or physical movement - only experience. I seemed to feel every part of my body vibrantly alive – the muscles, the bones, the organs, breathing, heartbeat, blood flowing ... [note "seemed to"]

Then I felt that I could conceivably bring myself so into the moment that I could almost disappear – into the all-pervading field of … being. Absolutely all-pervading, massively and overwhelmingly so.

There is no question of there being anything else - heaven, hell, our childish constructs. If it [the sensation I felt] was sound it would have the intensity of deafening white noise – it was THAT all-pervading. It was like an endlessly deep well into which I could fall if I stilled to the point of being 100% in the moment.

Very scary. I felt like I could almost combust with the intensity of it. I saw death [yeah yeah, I know] ... and it was absolutely incredible! It was everything you ever wanted – ultimate peace, ultimate rightness and connection – just there and then … nothingness? A different kind of consciousness? ...

I’m sure any readers would think me mad. Well, [fornicate] ‘em. The experience was ... terrifying, like I was on the verge of biting off more than I could chew – accidentally probing depths that really should be left to nature taking its course. I can see death up ahead and it’s fantastic and wonderful in a way I would never have imagined. I actually doubt if anyone misses out on the greatness of it, no matter how disgraceful they have been. Hell is ... [bovine manure] designed to control people. It’s all heaven. Everything.

Until you manifest as matter. Then you have an adventure of growth. So much of it is luck and anyone in the west who doesn’t appreciate their luck is missing out [er, barring the sick, abused and homeless]. It’s a blessing and a curse, but if you realise that the final moment when you disappear into a sea of wonderfulness, of total awareness and total lack of awareness all at once, then maybe the hard times won’t feel quite so hard.

It [the power of the feeling] called to mind a Robert Fripp [musician] interview where he talked about his Exposure album.
‘In a flash the insight (or whatever) lasted for about half a second and I simply saw that Robert Fripp didn’t exist. And it wasn’t about pulling out my tomes on esoteric psychology, cosmology lectures #28, I simply saw that there was nothing there. But there was something, but it wasn’t Robert Fripp. Robert Fripp simply wasn’t there. He was just an arbitrary construct. It was quite terrifying simply to know that one doesn’t exist. So I would say that was a situation of “exposure” ... and it was terrifying, so it is impossible to achieve the aim unless you see where you are ... and it’s painful.
The infinite is very big and, really, I don’t think human beings could survive complete enlightenment. The intensity would burn you up – that’s how it felt, weird as that sounds. Whatever, my feeling was that we aren’t really meant for enlightenment – that the right way for humans to live their lives is to get out there and experience things, enjoy life and learn. If we grow and evolve, then God / Multiverse does too, given that we are a component part.

... it doesn’t come close to describing the intensity of the experience. To realise just how comical and loveable and precious we humans are in our insistence on individuality and ego. Proud little animals. It’s cool. We fumble. It’s all learning. Sometimes we do it tough. Sometimes it’s hell (the only hell that exists) – but it’s a happy ending once the final panic subsides.

You sure do “meet God” when you die. You won’t miss it – it’s like missing the atmosphere – you'd need pretty bad aim haha. There’s no delay. No tunnel or such poetic [bovine manure] – it’s just Whammo! … sucked back into the fabric of Everything. The anthropomorphic spin on God is hilarious. What people might call God is absolute awareness and connectedness without any thoughts or emotions. You will feel bliss but not realise or care that you do. It won’t matter, it will just be.

You get meditators trying to make themselves immune to that moment of pre-death panic but there’s no need to protect yourself. If you hurt and freak out, oh well. It won’t last too long, hopefully, and then you settle down to be subsumed by The All. I didn’t delve too far (for fear of not coming back) so there’s still mystery and guesswork. Rather than protect ourselves from the trials of death, I should – we should – immerse ourselves in the human experience.

I don’t think there’s nearly as much judgement for being a “bad person” in the afterlife as we pretend … it would be like cancer cells being punished for committing murder. Everything is made of the same stuff ...

I think of ancients who would have had this experience and how they would have decided to devote themselves to God. But they got it wrong, since what one might call "God" is everything ... a work in progress, just as we and all else in the universe is. Constantly manifesting, dissipating and re-manifesting. Always reinventing and refining, always new. Every moment is unique and after that moment the universe will never be the same again – the universe of the past effectively “dies” only to be immediately replaced by the universe of the present, which gives way to …

I will not become a religion-head, given that most of ‘em give the impression that they wouldn’t know the feeling of transcendence if they fell over it. Why be religious based on stuff that people tell you? Not relevant today. The only valid reason to be religious is to explore your relationship with The All.

My instinct is not to get too deep into this – I know it will look after itself when I die – so I don’t feel inclined to check in with The Reaper on a regular basis. It’s enough to know death will happen, and the longer I can postpone it the better.
Afterwards I wondered about the bliss and fear (funny combination) I felt during the faux near death experience, which was the most powerful aspect of the overall experience.

We are often told that happiness comes from immersion in the present moment. Nothing will command your attention more than approaching death! It's not as though you've got bigger fish to fry or more pressing exigencies to attend to - or any exigencies, for that matter, other than the moment.

I was surprised at how "callously" I felt towards loved ones at the time. As I approached the faux moment of death I couldn't have cared less about family and friends or anyone else - not nastily, just a feeling that they'd be okay and all the stuff we worry about is trivial and temporary. Their fate would be to live out their lives and then fall into the blissful abyss [ablyss? :)]

All rather esoteric for a science-loving agnostic, but the whole experience was a shock to me, especially the death aspect. Before the experience my view was that it was irrational to imagine being more conscious when you're dead than when you're asleep. Lights out. Goodnight.

Afterwards, my feeling was that the universe is entirely alive, although not by our definition. And it's conscious, again not by our definition, and that is the state will will be in after we die. You can't get away from needing brains for thoughts, glands for emotions and senses for feeling (or equivalent algorithms) but the sense of all-encompassing being, experiential awareness and connectedness of all things was palpable - and encouraging.
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Re: Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by Spectrum »

Jill Bolte experienced a super peak experience as a result of a very serious stroke.
Drugs and hallucinogens also produced similar peak experiences and altered states.
Long term and seasoned meditators experienced such peak experiences but are always advice against attaching any desire to it but rather let such experiences pass with indifference.
Such 'peak experience' occurs within a range of mental illnesses, schizo, temporal epilepsy, etc.
There are those who experience peak experience out of the blue.
There are other reasons which trigger altered states and peak experiences.

So how do one know which is the real trigger for their peak experiences.
In general, imo, every human should be exposed to the peak experience of cosmic consciousness and the sense of oneness with everything where possible.
What is critical is one must understand the root cause of such an experience to make sure it is not due to a medical or other potentially dangerous reasons as listed above.

In addition one must also understand the underlying biological, physiological and psychological basis of peak experience. IMO, peak experiences can be reduced to a mechanic of detachment of the self (ego) in neural terms as a result of various actions and causes.

To optimize such peak experiences (positive), it should be supported by some holistic philosophy. Note spiritual meditators who subscribe to various teachings that include the triggering of peak experience as part of the course.
In addition note the theory of peak experience by Abraham Maslow, 'Flow' by Csikszentmihalyi
Last edited by Spectrum on February 16th, 2014, 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by Sy Borg »

Spectrum, I hesitated to make the thread because I wondered if I'd just come across like a silly woman who's fallen off the spiritual cliff. Even if no one else responds, your reply and video recommendation have made it worth the exposure and the effort. Thanks for that. I was stunned and delighted with Jill Bolte's talk - amazed at how similar aspects of her experience were to mine.

Your post makes sense to me. In the days preceding the PE I became more aware of the constant stream of words going through my mind, and not all of them made me happy - just the usual the neurotic worries that come from living in a dense, competitive society of calculating status-conscious apes. So I decided to try banishing the words - to just be a creature of my senses for a while. It appears that, after a few days' practice, I eventually fluked a level of left hemisphere suppression to a point where the right brain held sway.

When I found the PEs impossible to replicate I realised that just looking for a buzz is a superficial use of something that appears to be deep and fundamental. I did manage a couple of "mini-PEs" last year but I became conscious of it quickly and I fell back the my usual state. That cued me that your ego has to be switched off for it to work. You need to completely not care. Just do and be and to welcome whatever comes (or not) equally.

The PEs were followed by a few days of lucid thought processes where I could pose myself any problem in my life and immediately perceive a smart and ethical way through (or if I just had to put up with it), without my usual mental static. That's what I feel is the value in peak experiences. That, and opening up new possibilities and perspectives. I have been a far more positive person in day to day life as a result.

Thanks again, Spectrum. That was helpful.
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Re: Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by Lacewing »

Wow, Greta. I'm just now reading this thread you started a year ago... and I relate to so much that you wrote about this particular peak experience you had.
Greta wrote:...I could almost disappear – into the all-pervading field of … being. Absolutely all-pervading, massively and overwhelmingly so.

.../no question of there being anything else - heaven, hell, our childish constructs.

.../If it [the sensation I felt] was sound it would have the intensity of deafening white noise – it was THAT all-pervading.
Yes... For me, there was nothing "ELSE". There was nothing SEPARATE. Meaning, also, there were no thoughts or words or judgments or definitions or needs or fears. NONE of it. And yet, coming back to human thinking and feeling, we try to define and talk about it. And perhaps we feel some terror from perceiving that this human world and "ourselves" that we think are so real and solid and meaningful... aren't. When we get over the terror... our shift in perspective (and how it can affect everything we think and do in our lives going forward) seems phenomenal.
greta wrote: It’s all heaven. Everything.

Until you manifest as matter. Then you have an adventure of growth.

.../It [the power of the feeling] called to mind a Robert Fripp [musician] interview where he talked about his Exposure album.
‘In a flash the insight (or whatever) lasted for about half a second and I simply saw that Robert Fripp didn’t exist. And it wasn’t about pulling out my tomes on esoteric psychology, cosmology lectures #28, I simply saw that there was nothing there. But there was something, but it wasn’t Robert Fripp. Robert Fripp simply wasn’t there. He was just an arbitrary construct...
Yes! To be able to step outside of oneself is... well, I think maybe the most "spiritual" thing one can do. To really be willing to let go of the idea of oneself... even just for a few moments, now and then. :) And the more we do it, the easier it is to accept and do... and the freer one becomes from all the chatter and noise. I'm not suggesting that people abandon all identity -- having an identity is part of the path of being here. But to recognize, perhaps, that it's CHOSEN... that it's not a given... helps free us up from the shackles and blindness of what we've chosen. That's what I'm guessing, anyway. 8)
greta wrote: I don’t think human beings could survive complete enlightenment.
I don't either. I think that would conflict with material separateness... which seems to be required to participate in being here. I've come to believe that this human experience is a very interesting opportunity to explore and sense and share and dance. We don't get to control the conditions of all of it... but we get to ride it the best we can with whatever conditions arise.
greta wrote:If we grow and evolve, then God / Multiverse does too, given that we are a component part.
I think so too. That's why even my private and unspoken thoughts make a difference, for better or worse. Trying to conceal or pretend anything in the physical world is pointless for the evolvement of the collective. It's all transmitted. People who are visibly acting out hatefulness and delusion, are just being more visible than all the people who conceal it. I have wished the terrorist with the knife who beheads prisoners would, himself, be put in an orange jumpsuit and forced to kneel while a sharp knife is flashed around near him day after day! Or that people who do terrible things to other people and animals, would have those things done to them. I can have vicious thoughts. :evil: So I try to remember: It's all drama. THIS is not all there is, nor do we humans represent the extent of what we are. That's why there's ALWAYS good reason to extend beyond where/what we think we are... while being kind with wherever we are (otherwise we'll continually be drawn into conflict at every position).
greta wrote: To realise just how comical and loveable and precious we humans are in our insistence on individuality and ego. Proud little animals. It’s cool. We fumble. It’s all learning. Sometimes we do it tough. Sometimes it’s hell (the only hell that exists) – but it’s a happy ending once the final panic subsides.
Yes! And when we can see from such a perspective, we can fill with love... and that's a helpful place to vibrate. We don't get as stuck on things.
greta wrote: There’s no delay. No tunnel or such poetic [bovine manure] – it’s just Whammo! … sucked back into the fabric of Everything. The anthropomorphic spin on God is hilarious. What people might call God is absolute awareness and connectedness without any thoughts or emotions. You will feel bliss but not realise or care that you do. It won’t matter, it will just be.
Sometimes, listening to some (not all) theists go on and on so precisely about how everything is, I wish they could have a sudden realization that they may actually be doing a disservice to others... by restricting perception within borders... and maybe it would be good if they went and meditated for awhile and focused on their own self-mastery rather than preaching absolutes that can only be the fiction of a particular mindset, perspective, and world.
greta wrote: Rather than protect ourselves from the trials of death, I should – we should – immerse ourselves in the human experience.
I think when a person has an experience that frees them from who they think they are, they are then freed to have this human experience in new ways. And they might no longer feel as much need to judge themselves or others as they might have done before (or as others might tell them to do).
greta wrote: I don’t think there’s nearly as much judgement for being a “bad person” in the afterlife as we pretend … it would be like cancer cells being punished for committing murder. Everything is made of the same stuff ...
Yes! How can the totality punish itself? All these judgments are human stuff.
greta wrote:I think of ancients who would have had this experience and how they would have decided to devote themselves to God. But they got it wrong, since what one might call "God" is everything ... a work in progress, just as we and all else in the universe is. Constantly manifesting, dissipating and re-manifesting. Always reinventing and refining, always new. Every moment is unique and after that moment the universe will never be the same again – the universe of the past effectively “dies” only to be immediately replaced by the universe of the present, which gives way to …
I really like this, Greta. I can see that only humans are trying to STOP things in a position that they can fathom and interact with.
greta wrote: I will not become a religion-head, given that most of ‘em give the impression that they wouldn’t know the feeling of transcendence if they fell over it.
Some of the discussions on this website are astounding in how they reveal that a certain kind of theist mindset will protect and preserve itself at all costs, even sounding insane, despite some of the most thought-provoking perspectives are added to a conversation. Such perspectives are immediately shoved aside... no consideration... no interaction... they "do not exist" to that particular theist. It seems like a primitive behavior refusing to see anything beyond its comfortable borders.

I feel for these people. But admittedly not as much as I used to. I used to go to extra effort to protect them, by not saying anything that might scare or challenge them too much. I do still try to be sensitive and respectful, but I've come to see that it's important to question absolutes that attempt to cast everything and everyone in concrete. That's not helpful. It's stagnant and it's delusion. It appears that we all have filters to protect ourselves from each other -- so I need not worry about blowing away someone's reality against their best interests. 8) If it doesn't work for them, they won't hear it.
greta wrote: I was surprised at how "callously" I felt towards loved ones at the time. As I approached the faux moment of death I couldn't have cared less about family and friends or anyone else - not nastily, just a feeling that they'd be okay and all the stuff we worry about is trivial and temporary. Their fate would be to live out their lives and then fall into the blissful abyss [ablyss? :)]
Well, I'm guessing that when you so completely experience oneness of all... there can be no real concern about separate parts... because there really aren't any separate parts... other than as imagined for the purpose of the human illusion.
greta wrote: Afterwards, my feeling was that the universe is entirely alive, although not by our definition. And it's conscious, again not by our definition, and that is the state we will be in after we die.
I think that's an important distinction: "not by our standards". The universe/collective does not THINK in puny human terms... why would it? And the "aliveness"/energy would not be dense and contained like human life. That would make no sense. I imagine it as a pure energy, moving this way or that, feeling drawn or collecting in this way or that, more instinctually than "thoughtfully". Naturally and free-flowing. Likely, there can be no "purpose" other than to move and to form. Such forces would be far removed from human concepts of controlling and deciding. And that's wonderful! It would be very dreary indeed if everything were limited to the extraordinarily condensed and distorted ideas and terms of humans. Aggghhhhh!!!!

Here's how I'll summarize: Everything is cool BEYOND THIS. It's up to us to make THIS cool while we're here. :D
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Re: Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by Alias »

I was 19, riding in back of a pickup truck (It wasn't even illegal in those days!) looking up at the night sky. For no particular reason, and without warning, I fell in. All the way into the night sky. Being swallowed up by and consuming and becoming one with the universe. Very, very cool! And scary as h e double hockey sticks. The aftershocks - 7.5 tapering away to 2.5 - lasted a couple of weeks, or half a dozen adolescent poems. I thought I'd been shown something eternal and profound.

Yet, it didn't change my life. I went to work on Monday as usual, had coffee at The Mill with friends, bought a Julian Bream LP on payday. I didn't treat anyone differently, paint on factory walls, learn Esperanto or take up yoga.

Is it significant? I think that depends entirely on what you need. That is, whether you need a nudge in some direction just at that juncture. If your life is pretty secure and going well, nothing changes. Except maybe that it becomes harder to take seriously all those petty dogmas.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
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Re: Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by Sy Borg »

Lacewing, your experiences and impressions are closer to mine than anyone I've encountered.
Lacewing wrote:Some of the discussions on this website are astounding in how they reveal that a certain kind of theist mindset will protect and preserve itself at all costs, even sounding insane, despite some of the most thought-provoking perspectives are added to a conversation. Such perspectives are immediately shoved aside... no consideration... no interaction... they "do not exist" to that particular theist. It seems like a primitive behavior refusing to see anything beyond its comfortable borders.
Still, all the old myths can potentially act as conduits to PEs, but only if belief is strong. It may be more beneficial for a theist to access the placebo effect (and social contacts) that comes with strong belief than to be considered rational by atheists and agnostics on a web forum and risking bursting the bubble.

More generally, humans and other animals always seem to behave oddly to outsiders when seeking their bliss. No one is ever their respectable, social selves when they surrender to abandon. A gentle dog can transforms into a ruthless predator in an instant. The intelligent, civilised man whispering sweet nothings into your ear soon enough becomes a distant, wild-eyed pumping machine for a time. Try watching Keith Jarrett, Pat Metheney or Joe Cocker in performance.

I saw a hilarious video on YouTube of a fellow who became so excited at seeing a double rainbow (he insisted that he wasn't using drugs) that he was crying and babbling on like a lunatic about how beautiful it was, and how beautiful the universe is etc. In the video that Spectrum posted, note some of Jill Bolte's gushing terms when describing her experience. Or my own gushes in describing mine.

It seems that if you want to experience some of the most highly rewarding aspects of consciousness you have to be prepared to let go of your pride and so-called dignity. We can appear ridiculous in our abandon when we give ourselves over to our inner child (transactional analysis) but it would seem a waste to avoid such joy just so as to appear to be retaining one's "dignity".
Lacewing wrote:I think that's an important distinction: "not by our standards". The universe/collective does not THINK in puny human terms... why would it? And the "aliveness"/energy would not be dense and contained like human life. That would make no sense. I imagine it as a pure energy, moving this way or that, feeling drawn or collecting in this way or that, more instinctually than "thoughtfully". Naturally and free-flowing. Likely, there can be no "purpose" other than to move and to form. Such forces would be far removed from human concepts of controlling and deciding.
Could be. Yes, we assume that we are the pinnacle when we are only a small part of a universe possible quite early in its evolution.
Alias wrote:I was 19, riding in back of a pickup truck (It wasn't even illegal in those days!) looking up at the night sky. For no particular reason, and without warning, I fell in. All the way into the night sky. Being swallowed up by and consuming and becoming one with the universe. Very, very cool! And scary as h e double hockey sticks. The aftershocks - 7.5 tapering away to 2.5 - lasted a couple of weeks, or half a dozen adolescent poems. I thought I'd been shown something eternal and profound.

Yet, it didn't change my life. I went to work on Monday as usual, had coffee at The Mill with friends, bought a Julian Bream LP on payday. I didn't treat anyone differently, paint on factory walls, learn Esperanto or take up yoga.

Is it significant? I think that depends entirely on what you need. That is, whether you need a nudge in some direction just at that juncture. If your life is pretty secure and going well, nothing changes. Except maybe that it becomes harder to take seriously all those petty dogmas.
Given that my PEs seemed to have been triggered by moments of great happiness, I was obviously in decent shape emotionally and mentally when they occurred. I'm not sure I especially needed anything rather than it helped me fine tune a few of the less tame bats in my belfry and, especially, to notice some gaps in my understanding of reality.

Obviously we don't all react to events in the same way. If I'd had those experiences when I was young I imagine any insights I'd had would have too engrossed in trying to build a life for it to sink in. If I remember correctly, around that age I'd concluded that the secret to the universe had something to do with bananas after taking a tab of acid. At least I didn't see JC or his mum in the dark enzymatic browning patterns on the peel :)
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Re: Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by Belinda »

My experience was not as impressive as Alias's or Greta's. I was feeling tired while walking on a hill and suddenly it didn't matter that I was tired although I still felt tired. Everything felt okay, even my usual worries, although I could still remember them. I tried to hold on to the feeling but it evaporated after a few minutes. I am glad that I can remember it though.

What the blessed mood signified for me is that I don't have to feel responsible for bad things.

That blessed mood

In which the heavy and the weary weight


Of all this unintelligible world,

Is lightened:--that serene and blessed mood,


In which the affections gently lead us on,--


Until, the breath of this corporeal frame


And even the motion of our human blood


Almost suspended, we are laid asleep


In body, and become a living soul:


While with an eye made quiet by the power


Of harmony, and the deep power of joy,


We see into the life of things.


William Wordsworth
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Re: Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by Lambert »

Belinda wrote:My experience was not as impressive as Alias's or Greta's. I was feeling tired while walking on a hill and suddenly it didn't matter that I was tired although I still felt tired. Everything felt okay, even my usual worries, although I could still remember them. I tried to hold on to the feeling but it evaporated after a few minutes. I am glad that I can remember it though.

What the blessed mood signified for me is that I don't have to feel responsible for bad things.

That blessed mood

In which the heavy and the weary weight


Of all this unintelligible world,

Is lightened:--that serene and blessed mood,


In which the affections gently lead us on,--


Until, the breath of this corporeal frame


And even the motion of our human blood


Almost suspended, we are laid asleep


In body, and become a living soul:


While with an eye made quiet by the power


Of harmony, and the deep power of joy,


We see into the life of things.


William Wordsworth
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Re: Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by Sy Borg »

Belinda wrote:My experience was not as impressive as Alias's or Greta's. I was feeling tired while walking on a hill and suddenly it didn't matter that I was tired although I still felt tired. Everything felt okay, even my usual worries, although I could still remember them. I tried to hold on to the feeling but it evaporated after a few minutes. I am glad that I can remember it though.
It's like a dream in that it is difficult to grasp when you return to a relatively normal mental state. My first PE was over in an instant. I wanted it to return but I knew it was a fluke and I wouldn't be able to will it back.

The "everything is ok" feeling seems common to PEs. Our niggling worries are put back in context and seen as the inevitable inconveniences of life that they are.
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Re: Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by HZY »

Greta wrote:Some of you may have noticed that I have mentioned a recent peak experience a few times. At the time of the PE, late 2012, I wrote a diary entry about it (below). I was less skeptical in my thinking at the time than I am now, and I find some extrapolations hard to relate to, but there's aspects that still internally feel true, although I'm less confident in my extrapolations.

I would be interested to know about others' peak experiences. I'd be interested to know if anyone here has felt anything similar. The day after the PE I Googled aspects of what I felt and thought at the time and it seems it's pretty common. I have edited out the most gratuitous waffle; text in square brackets are afterthoughts or censoring of non G-rated language:
Must write this because it’s already fading fast. I’ve had my second [peak] experience ...

... I was trying to get my mind to a point where it was entirely still and there would be no thought or emotions or physical movement - only experience. I seemed to feel every part of my body vibrantly alive – the muscles, the bones, the organs, breathing, heartbeat, blood flowing ... [note "seemed to"]

Then I felt that I could conceivably bring myself so into the moment that I could almost disappear – into the all-pervading field of … being. Absolutely all-pervading, massively and overwhelmingly so.

There is no question of there being anything else - heaven, hell, our childish constructs. If it [the sensation I felt] was sound it would have the intensity of deafening white noise – it was THAT all-pervading. It was like an endlessly deep well into which I could fall if I stilled to the point of being 100% in the moment.

Very scary. I felt like I could almost combust with the intensity of it. I saw death [yeah yeah, I know] ... and it was absolutely incredible! It was everything you ever wanted – ultimate peace, ultimate rightness and connection – just there and then … nothingness? A different kind of consciousness? ...

I’m sure any readers would think me mad. Well, [fornicate] ‘em. The experience was ... terrifying, like I was on the verge of biting off more than I could chew – accidentally probing depths that really should be left to nature taking its course. I can see death up ahead and it’s fantastic and wonderful in a way I would never have imagined. I actually doubt if anyone misses out on the greatness of it, no matter how disgraceful they have been. Hell is ... [bovine manure] designed to control people. It’s all heaven. Everything.

Until you manifest as matter. Then you have an adventure of growth. So much of it is luck and anyone in the west who doesn’t appreciate their luck is missing out [er, barring the sick, abused and homeless]. It’s a blessing and a curse, but if you realise that the final moment when you disappear into a sea of wonderfulness, of total awareness and total lack of awareness all at once, then maybe the hard times won’t feel quite so hard.

It [the power of the feeling] called to mind a Robert Fripp [musician] interview where he talked about his Exposure album.


(Nested quote removed.)


The infinite is very big and, really, I don’t think human beings could survive complete enlightenment. The intensity would burn you up – that’s how it felt, weird as that sounds. Whatever, my feeling was that we aren’t really meant for enlightenment – that the right way for humans to live their lives is to get out there and experience things, enjoy life and learn. If we grow and evolve, then God / Multiverse does too, given that we are a component part.

... it doesn’t come close to describing the intensity of the experience. To realise just how comical and loveable and precious we humans are in our insistence on individuality and ego. Proud little animals. It’s cool. We fumble. It’s all learning. Sometimes we do it tough. Sometimes it’s hell (the only hell that exists) – but it’s a happy ending once the final panic subsides.

You sure do “meet God” when you die. You won’t miss it – it’s like missing the atmosphere – you'd need pretty bad aim haha. There’s no delay. No tunnel or such poetic [bovine manure] – it’s just Whammo! … sucked back into the fabric of Everything. The anthropomorphic spin on God is hilarious. What people might call God is absolute awareness and connectedness without any thoughts or emotions. You will feel bliss but not realise or care that you do. It won’t matter, it will just be.

You get meditators trying to make themselves immune to that moment of pre-death panic but there’s no need to protect yourself. If you hurt and freak out, oh well. It won’t last too long, hopefully, and then you settle down to be subsumed by The All. I didn’t delve too far (for fear of not coming back) so there’s still mystery and guesswork. Rather than protect ourselves from the trials of death, I should – we should – immerse ourselves in the human experience.

I don’t think there’s nearly as much judgement for being a “bad person” in the afterlife as we pretend … it would be like cancer cells being punished for committing murder. Everything is made of the same stuff ...

I think of ancients who would have had this experience and how they would have decided to devote themselves to God. But they got it wrong, since what one might call "God" is everything ... a work in progress, just as we and all else in the universe is. Constantly manifesting, dissipating and re-manifesting. Always reinventing and refining, always new. Every moment is unique and after that moment the universe will never be the same again – the universe of the past effectively “dies” only to be immediately replaced by the universe of the present, which gives way to …

I will not become a religion-head, given that most of ‘em give the impression that they wouldn’t know the feeling of transcendence if they fell over it. Why be religious based on stuff that people tell you? Not relevant today. The only valid reason to be religious is to explore your relationship with The All.

My instinct is not to get too deep into this – I know it will look after itself when I die – so I don’t feel inclined to check in with The Reaper on a regular basis. It’s enough to know death will happen, and the longer I can postpone it the better.
Afterwards I wondered about the bliss and fear (funny combination) I felt during the faux near death experience, which was the most powerful aspect of the overall experience.

We are often told that happiness comes from immersion in the present moment. Nothing will command your attention more than approaching death! It's not as though you've got bigger fish to fry or more pressing exigencies to attend to - or any exigencies, for that matter, other than the moment.

I was surprised at how "callously" I felt towards loved ones at the time. As I approached the faux moment of death I couldn't have cared less about family and friends or anyone else - not nastily, just a feeling that they'd be okay and all the stuff we worry about is trivial and temporary. Their fate would be to live out their lives and then fall into the blissful abyss [ablyss? :)]

All rather esoteric for a science-loving agnostic, but the whole experience was a shock to me, especially the death aspect. Before the experience my view was that it was irrational to imagine being more conscious when you're dead than when you're asleep. Lights out. Goodnight.

Afterwards, my feeling was that the universe is entirely alive, although not by our definition. And it's conscious, again not by our definition, and that is the state will will be in after we die. You can't get away from needing brains for thoughts, glands for emotions and senses for feeling (or equivalent algorithms) but the sense of all-encompassing being, experiential awareness and connectedness of all things was palpable - and encouraging.
Talking about near death as peak experience, how about climax during sex while having your partner trying to choke you to death. Just ask David Carradine. Wouldn't that be the ultimate peak experience to live through and talk about?
Metathought
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Re: Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by Metathought »

In post #1, Greta wrote:
I would be interested to know about others' peak experiences. I'd be interested to know if anyone here has felt anything similar.


I have had a few experiences of my own. I refer to them as “mystical experiences”. I think they are similar to your peak experience. I intend to share some of them with others here but before doing that, I wish to examine what, in my opinion, may be a background for such an experience.

I view such experiences from two angles.

The first is when one deliberately seeks to quieten the mind as in the practice of meditation. I believe this is similar to Greta's experience based on what she wrote:
“... I was trying to get my mind to a point where it was entirely still and there would be no thought or emotions or physical movement - only experience.”
The second is when such an experience comes to one on its own. Of course, one may have brought oneself to a state of readiness to receive such an experience without consciously trying to do so.

Some persons experience such moments when, being alone with Nature, they feel a strange unity with everything around them; a unity that is so strong and overpowering that consciousness of one’s individual self is lost. One’s consciousness seems to merge with a deeper consciousness of the Unity of all things in Nature and the Cosmos, and one experiences an awareness of a deeper reality that is impossible to describe in words. At such moments, one has no consciousness of time and space but only of that particular moment – the infinite eternal NOW. Such moments occur with a spontaneity of their own. One makes contact with one’s cosmic roots in a dimension where time and space are irrelevant.

John Blofeld gives a beautiful description of such moments:
There are moments when a marvelous experience leaps into mind as though coming from another world. The magic that calls it forth is often so fleeting as to be forgotten in the joy of the experience itself – it may be a sky lark bursting into song, the plash of a wave, a flute played by moonlight or the fateful shrieking or drumming of a mountain storm; a lovely smile perhaps, or a single gesture, form or hue of compelling beauty; a familiar scene transformed by an unusual quality of light, or a cluster of rocks suggestive of beings imbued with life. Or the spell may be wrought by a sudden exaltation, a jerking of the mind into an unknown dimension. A curtain hitherto unnoticed is suddenly twitched aside, and for a timeless moment, there stands partially revealed – a mystery.
He goes on to say:
Of one thing I am sure – a mystical experience, whether vague or intense is nothing less than a direct intuition of Ultimate Reality.
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Re: Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by Lacewing »

Metathought wrote: Some persons experience such moments when, being alone with Nature, they feel a strange unity with everything around them; a unity that is so strong and overpowering that consciousness of one’s individual self is lost. One’s consciousness seems to merge with a deeper consciousness of the Unity of all things in Nature and the Cosmos, and one experiences an awareness of a deeper reality that is impossible to describe in words. At such moments, one has no consciousness of time and space but only of that particular moment – the infinite eternal NOW. Such moments occur with a spontaneity of their own. One makes contact with one’s cosmic roots in a dimension where time and space are irrelevant.
This above is an excellence description (thanks) of what I've experienced too. When it happens, it's usually when I'm walking around in nature. It doesn't happen as a result of any particular effort, but rather occurs when I simply have a very genuine heartfelt desire to clearly see what I need to see (beyond myself)... and then there it is instantly (because it's always there I suppose, it's just me not usually seeing it). And in that "eternal now" moment, everything is connected and makes sense, and all I feel is love and acceptance, and there is no "me" adding blockages to the flow. Seeing how "close" and accessible it is from this human state... has kind of changed "everything" about the way I think and see. Even though I still go through the struggles of being human... I retain a sense (on one level or another of my being) of that unified cosmic flow. As a result, it seems that I enjoy questioning our human beliefs more... and I'm more open to what might be possible.

I would like to hear your experiences, Metathought, whenever you feel inspired to share them.
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Re: Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by Atreyu »

Whether so called "mystical" or "peak" experiences are a "sideshow" or "significant" depends on whether or not they lead to any change in the individual. Most of the time they do not. Ordinarily they are forgotten and fade into memory. In rare cases, however, they can motivate an individual to act, or at least to search.

I had many such experiences during my life, but I'm convinced that only one of them was truly significant, and that is so because I'm convinced that only that one particular experience really changed me. All of the others, at best, were only a preparation for that one particular event....
Metathought
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Re: Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by Metathought »

Lacewing wrote:

This above is an excellence description (thanks) of what I've experienced too. When it happens, it's usually when I'm walking around in nature. It doesn't happen as a result of any particular effort, but rather occurs when I simply have a very genuine heartfelt desire to clearly see what I need to see (beyond myself)... and then there it is instantly (because it's always there I suppose, it's just me not usually seeing it). And in that "eternal now" moment, everything is connected and makes sense, and all I feel is love and acceptance, and there is no "me" adding blockages to the flow. Seeing how "close" and accessible it is from this human state... has kind of changed "everything" about the way I think and see. Even though I still go through the struggles of being human... I retain a sense (on one level or another of my being) of that unified cosmic flow. As a result, it seems that I enjoy questioning our human beliefs more... and I'm more open to what might be possible.
I am happy to know that you identify basically with what I have written.

I wish to present some further background for such an experience:


A human being is merely one of thousands, maybe millions, of life forms existing on Planet Earth.

There is an interconnection among all life forms on Earth. Human beings and animals breathe in oxygen and breathe out carbon dioxide. Plant life, including trees, take in the carbon dioxide, and through the process of photosynthesis, give off oxygen which animals breathe in, and the cycle continues ad infinitum.

Plant life feeds human beings directly or indirectly. Indirectly since some animals feed on the plants and they, in turn, become food for human beings, or they may become food for other animals which may also become food for human beings. All animals, when they die, return to Planet Earth and feed the plant life which provides food for animals as stated earlier. There is an interconnection between a human being and everything else on the planet.

Basically, a human being relates to his/her environment through the medium of the physical senses, that is, seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, and smelling. Each of these senses operate within a restricted range.

Seeing, for example, is restricted to frequencies within the visible region of the electromagnetic spectrum, the combination of which is referred to as white light, and which is a tiny part of the overall electromagnetic spectrum. There may also be some sensing of the infrared region as heat, and the ultraviolet region which may affect the skin as sunburn.

Some animals, for example, certain snakes, “see” or detect their prey using their infrared or heat sensors called pit organs, whereby they may sense the presence of a warm blooded animal with great accuracy from the heat generated by its body.

The range of human hearing is said to be 20Hz to 20Khz. Other animals, for example dogs, can hear sounds at frequencies higher than 20 khz. Dogs can hear sounds up to 47 Khz and cats up to 64 Khz.

Objects in space send out electromagnetic radiation at all wavelengths - from gamma rays to radio waves. Each type of radiation (or light) brings us unique information so, to get a complete picture of the Universe, we need to study it in all of its light, using each part of the electromagnetic spectrum! Almost everything we know about the Universe comes from the study of the electromagnetic radiation emitted or reflected by objects in space.

Planet Earth is just one of millions, maybe billions, of planets, stars, etc., in the cosmos according to our scientists. These are all interrelated. So, in essence, all human beings have a fundamental connection with the cosmos.

In other words, a human being is not an entity that is totally enclosed or shut in within the boundaries of his/her physical skin and only affected by sight, sound, taste, touch and smell that lie within their restricted human sense domains, and these sensory stimuli may be spontaneously registered in human consciousness. But certain supersensory vibrations or frequencies in the Electromagnetic Spectrum, in a sense, can penetrate “the said human skin” and interact with his/her consciousness in an extraordinary manner, giving direct insights into the nature of the universe and the cosmos at the supersensory level.

Clearly, Reality is not confined to the limited range of direct human sensory experience mentioned above. Perhaps what is termed a “mystical experience” gives us a glimpse or an insight into a different dimension of reality that supercedes direct human sensory experience.

Fritjof Capra, author of “The Tao of Physics” states in the Preface:

"Five years ago, I had a beautiful experience which set me on a road that has led to the writing of this book. I was sitting by the ocean one late summer afternoon, watching the waves rolling in and feeling the rhythm of my breathing, when I suddenly became aware of my whole environment as being engaged in a gigantic cosmic dance. Being a physicist, I knew that the sand, rocks, water and air around me were made of vibrating molecules and atoms, and that these consisted of particles which interacted with one another by creating and destroying other particles. I knew also that the Earth’s atmosphere was continually bombarded by showers of ‘cosmic rays’, particles of high energy undergoing multiple collisions as they penetrated the air. All this was familiar to me from my research in high-energy physics, but until that moment I had only experienced it through graphs, diagrams and mathematical theories. As I sat on that beach my former experiences came to life; I ‘saw’ cascades of energy coming down from outer space, in which particles were created and destroyed in rhythmic pulses; I ‘saw’ the atoms of the elements and those of my body participating in this cosmic dance of energy; I felt its rhythm and I ‘heard’ its sound, and at that moment I knew that this was the Dance of Shiva, the Lord of Dancers worshipped by the Hindus."
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Lacewing
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Re: Peak experiences - a sideshow or significant?

Post by Lacewing »

Metathought wrote: But certain supersensory vibrations or frequencies in the Electromagnetic Spectrum, in a sense, can penetrate “the said human skin” and interact with his/her consciousness in an extraordinary manner, giving direct insights into the nature of the universe and the cosmos at the supersensory level.
Yes... this resonates with me. I'll attempt to describe a few more of my thoughts about it: When this extraordinary "sight/knowing/understanding" comes, it is without any human ego and it feels like the most natural thing in the world/universe. It is not representative of the human state as we are living it -- it feels like something very much beyond the current limited human experience. I have the sense that we, too, even as limited humans, are sending out waves "far and wide" with our thoughts and the type of energy we vibrate with. It's all inter-mingling and causing things (favorable and unfavorable on our own level) to happen in ways that make perfect sense, but may not be apparent to us. My hope is that enough people will come to truly desire clarity, and somehow we will shift to a new and broader frequency.
Metathought wrote: Fritjof Capra, author of “The Tao of Physics” states in the Preface:

"...when I suddenly became aware of my whole environment as being engaged in a gigantic cosmic dance. /...I ‘saw’ cascades of energy coming down from outer space, in which particles were created and destroyed in rhythmic pulses; I ‘saw’ the atoms of the elements and those of my body participating in this cosmic dance of energy; I felt its rhythm and I ‘heard’ its sound, and at that moment I knew that this was the Dance of Shiva, the Lord of Dancers worshipped by the Hindus."
This makes me smile with a smile that does not even feel like my own. The dance of such a magnitude of energy is absolutely beautiful and awe-inspiring. Being aware of views like this puts our human reality into a whole different perspective (for me) -- as we are not the center of the universe and "creation", we are simply one dance of many (perhaps).

Thanks for your post.
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