Announcement: Your votes are in! The January 2019 Philosophy Book of the Month is The Runaway Species: How Human Creativity Remakes the World by David Eagleman and Anthony Brandt.

The God paradox

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
Alias
Posts: 2450
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: The God paradox

Post by Alias » February 14th, 2018, 11:29 pm

I called you Nameless. That's not the same as names. Or maybe it is - in your world.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire

Alias
Posts: 2450
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: The God paradox

Post by Alias » February 14th, 2018, 11:35 pm

Namelesss wrote:
February 14th, 2018, 10:15 pm

Yes, I did.
If you have a problem with what I wrote,
No, I don't.
perhaps you might want to call me names,
I might, but I haven't.
as you seem unable to respond intellectually and critically?
Respond to what? All I did was quote your definition for Eduk's edufication.
Was it not self-explanatory?

Eduk
Posts: 2264
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: The God paradox

Post by Eduk » February 15th, 2018, 3:58 am

I said no human can reasonably claim to know all possibilities or, as Nameless puts it, the sum total of reality. The key word is reasonably.
Unknown means unknown.

Namelesss
Posts: 499
Joined: November 15th, 2017, 1:59 am

Re: The God paradox

Post by Namelesss » February 16th, 2018, 2:05 am

Eduk wrote:
February 15th, 2018, 3:58 am
I said no human can reasonably claim to know all possibilities or, as Nameless puts it, the sum total of reality. The key word is reasonably.
Obviously not.
But.. we all have 'access' far beyond our physical context.
As Consciousness is One, Universal, the 'need to know' of access ranges far and deep.

The basic reason for why existence/the Universe ends as it begins is that all Perspectives mutually arise to Consciousness, cancelling each other out.
Like matter and anti-matter.
The Whole can only be Known in bits and pieces, unique Perspectives, via duality/context.

StayCurious
Posts: 26
Joined: January 11th, 2018, 6:34 pm

Re: The God paradox

Post by StayCurious » February 17th, 2018, 4:09 am

Wayne92587 wrote:
February 13th, 2018, 3:52 pm
StayCurious; Omnipotent can mean "Capable of doing all things"
It is misinterpretations of Secret, Sacred Knowledge, like yours, that at is responsible for the God Complex, an abomination.

Man is forbidden to speak of the secret, Sacred, Hidden, Knowledge God, the end result being an abomination, lies,
deception, Duplicity, is to be Guileful

It is irreverent, forbidden, to speak of Priori Knowledge, to to give definition to Realities that can not be experience.

Omnipotent simply means "All Powerful.
I apologize in advance if you take offence, but I do believe knowledge in any form to be considered sacred or secret. Language is a tool for communication, but like all tools it has it's limits. Trying to completely encompass the meaning of language in terms of words would be like trying to write down how to pronounce the letters of the alphabet to someone that doesn't know the alphabet; you must of course use the letters of the alphabet and then you're in a bit of a pickle.

Back on track, I believe that my definition is of omnipotent is more accurate because it can be used for communication whereas the definition that it means "capable" almost explains itself into the void of words.

Wayne92587
Posts: 1756
Joined: January 27th, 2012, 9:32 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Hermese Trismegistus

Re: The God paradox

Post by Wayne92587 » February 18th, 2018, 12:02 pm

StayCurious, Sacred simply means secret,hidden.

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 3143
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: The God paradox

Post by LuckyR » February 21st, 2018, 11:46 am

Wayne92587 wrote:
February 18th, 2018, 12:02 pm
StayCurious, Sacred simply means secret,hidden.
That one person's opinion, StayCurious has another. Carry one...
"As usual... it depends."

Karpel Tunnel
Posts: 519
Joined: February 16th, 2018, 11:28 am

Re: The God paradox

Post by Karpel Tunnel » February 21st, 2018, 12:23 pm

From wikipedia....
The term omnipotent has been used to connote a number of different positions. These positions include, but are not limited to, the following:

A deity is able to do anything that it chooses to do.[1]
A deity is able to do anything that is in accord with its own nature (thus, for instance, if it is a logical consequence of a deity's nature that what it speaks is truth, then it is not able to lie).
It is part of a deity's nature to be consistent and that it would be inconsistent for said deity to go against its own laws unless there was a reason to do so.[2]
A deity can bring about any state of affairs which is logically possible for anyone to bring about in that situation.
A deity is able to do anything that corresponds with its omniscience and therefore with its worldplan.
Every action performed in the world is 'actually' being performed by the deity, either due to omni-immanence, or because all actions must be 'supported' or 'permitted' by the deity.
And notice what Aquinas says, also from wikipedia:
St. Thomas Aquinas, OP acknowledged difficulty in comprehending the Deity's power: "All confess that God is omnipotent; but it seems difficult to explain in what His omnipotence precisely consists: for there may be doubt as to the precise meaning of the word 'all' when we say that God can do all things. If, however, we consider the matter aright, since power is said in reference to possible things, this phrase, 'God can do all things,' is rightly understood to mean that God can do all things that are possible; and for this reason He is said to be omnipotent."[4] In the scholastic understanding, omnipotence is generally understood to be compatible with certain limitations or restrictions. A proposition that is necessarily true is one whose negation is self-contradictory.
Just because some believers will assert that omnipotence means being able to do anything imaginable - such as the classic stone lifting - there is diversity in Christianity and there is no proof with this 'paradox' that the Christian God cannot be.

Eduk
Posts: 2264
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: The God paradox

Post by Eduk » February 21st, 2018, 2:51 pm

It does demonstrate that some people's Christian God cannot be though ( by your own logic).
Unknown means unknown.

User avatar
Atreyu
Posts: 1737
Joined: June 17th, 2014, 3:11 am
Favorite Philosopher: P.D. Ouspensky
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: The God paradox

Post by Atreyu » February 26th, 2018, 9:03 pm

The proper view of any "God" would be that She is neither omnipotent nor ubiquitous.

No entity can be either, not even an entity which is Everything....

Wayne92587
Posts: 1756
Joined: January 27th, 2012, 9:32 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Hermese Trismegistus

Re: The God paradox

Post by Wayne92587 » February 27th, 2018, 5:54 pm

LuckyR; That one person's opinion, StayCurious has another. Carry one...

LuckyR and Statcurious, I have no need to discus the subject with either of you.

Staycurious, your have made a poor choice for your handle, you already Know Everything.

Alias
Posts: 2450
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: The God paradox

Post by Alias » February 28th, 2018, 12:33 am

Atreyu wrote:
February 26th, 2018, 9:03 pm
The proper view of any "God" would be that She is neither omnipotent nor ubiquitous.

No entity can be either, not even an entity which is Everything....
What would It do with an identifiable gender?
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire

Wayne92587
Posts: 1756
Joined: January 27th, 2012, 9:32 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Hermese Trismegistus

Re: The God paradox

Post by Wayne92587 » April 9th, 2018, 12:16 pm

Metaphor upon metaphor equals perversion, is Blasphemous.

Infinite, not measurable, omniscience is the proper Term, is not the Name, is not God's Identity!.
The term Omnipotent, all powerful, used in place of Omniscience is pure Blasphemy.

God, does not Create rocks; God is Transcendental.

Karpel Tunnel
Posts: 519
Joined: February 16th, 2018, 11:28 am

Re: The God paradox

Post by Karpel Tunnel » April 9th, 2018, 12:23 pm

Eduk wrote:
February 21st, 2018, 2:51 pm
It does demonstrate that some people's Christian God cannot be though ( by your own logic).
If from our limited perspective certain things cannot both be true, sure.

Karpel Tunnel
Posts: 519
Joined: February 16th, 2018, 11:28 am

Re: The God paradox

Post by Karpel Tunnel » April 9th, 2018, 12:26 pm

And actually, it would not prove that their God does not exist, just that they confused an infinite, not logically limited power with the actual, more powerful than anything else by a lot. If I think my wife has certain qualities and hey, she is not the best golfer possible in any universe, but the number one in the US now, she still exists, I am not confused to think she does and we are married, nor even if I worship her.

Post Reply