The Implications Of Generic Subjective Continuity
- Felix
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Re: The Implications Of Generic Subjective Continuity
BigBango: Tell that to Einstein who had a preconceived model, General Relativity, that predicted the bending of light around massive stars. That is what scientists do.
Einstein did not start with a model, he started with a theory, based on the known properties of light and gravity discovered by Newton, Faraday, Maxwell, et. al. Then he formulated mathematical models to extend and elaborate on that knowledge. He did not simply engage in armchair speculation.
- Sculptor1
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Re: The Implications Of Generic Subjective Continuity
I have to agree here. The Eddington observation without Einstein would have been dismissed as an aberration. The fact is , it verified the careful work of a life time.Felix wrote: ↑June 11th, 2019, 6:54 pm I said: "Starting with a preconceived model and attempting to make the evidence conform to it is not science."
BigBango: Tell that to Einstein who had a preconceived model, General Relativity, that predicted the bending of light around massive stars. That is what scientists do.
Einstein did not start with a model, he started with a theory, based on the known properties of light and gravity discovered by Newton, Faraday, Maxwell, et. al. Then he formulated mathematical models to extend and elaborate on that knowledge. He did not simply engage in armchair speculation.
Science, at its best, is capable of applying a cosmology contingent upon it "saving the appearances", when those appearances do not fit, science has shown itself willing and able to change its view rather than use the barrier of faith to defend a bankrupt system.
- AmosTheSpinozaGuy
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Re: The Implications Of Generic Subjective Continuity
- AmosTheSpinozaGuy
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Re: The Implications Of Generic Subjective Continuity
- Cycswan2
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Re: The Implications Of Generic Subjective Continuity
2. In regards to the recent comment, I don’t see how presentism and the actual flow of time - which would imply change in and of itself - to be true. I personally see philosophical becoming as a logical impossibility that violates foundational laws of logic, identity, etc. i see this experience of change and continuity to be an illusion due to self referential memory, and also other kinds of self same patterns that reinforce a subject’s and multiple subjects’ sense of continuity, giving the impression of continuity and a logical narrative that is shared via the way our universe is constituted (its physics). I see no logical violation for all subjective states to be frozen across their given spatiotemporal coordinates. And if there were a magical being outside spacetime, they could observe these slices. If they could embody this arbitrary slice, they would feel the constant sensory qualities of this slice - the: smell, sight, taste, touch, sound, etc. These qualities would be an aspect of the slice, with the subject embedded into this slice. I see no reason why this can not be the case, as I don’t believe that subjective states have to have actual continuity for their being. Like a program on a computer that needs to be executed, I don’t think consciousness is like that. There is nothing that has to “happen” for subjective states to exist within spacetime, static, with their qualitative content.
Sorry if the language is non academic and contradictory sounding, as I am not too knowledgeable in philosophy and the terminology, I am explaining it the best I can. I also will say that I would like gsc, oi/ei or anthing akin to this to be false on a personal level. I personally believe the implications are quite terrible. Our world gives the subject the illusion of choice, the illusion that we can control life and its experiences with enough time and energy, and that there will be finality to experience itself. A sort of false hope and sense of agency. I’ve even thought it would maybe be better just 24/7, indefinitely being on fire, with the anticipation that this is all you’ll every experience, with no false hope that the world is any otherthan this vs our world that has mostly mundane experiences, with some blissful and pretty painful experiences.. but even worse, scattered throughout these incarnations, truly unimaginable forms of suffering (the stuff you would see on gore sites or the dark web, eg). I would wager most people would rather experience nothing (if it were an option), than even one truly torturous experience. But we are talking about countless of these experiences sprinkled within the incarnations that “ahead” and “behind” us, with no: memory, essence, woo that makes us remember or avoid fate. It merely is what it is. It’s existential claustrophobia. We are sitting ducks.
- DerOesi
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Re: The Implications Of Generic Subjective Continuity
- Sy Borg
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Re: The Implications Of Generic Subjective Continuity
I'm glad you did revive it, I'd missed it, and the ideas of the OP are fascinating.
In the end, as the OP said, being depends on self referential memory. A rock melting in a volcano is not suffering, as far as we can tell. When worlds collide, I doubt they tremble in fear as the impact looms. It just happens, like the many dynamics within and around us that we don't consciously notice.
It seems to me that our personalities are like readily disposable cells as part of a much larger, emergent personality - the personality of the Earth as a whole. At present the planet's overall personality is primitive and fragmented, barely able to protect itself from asteroids. However, with the advent of AI, a grand integration seems possible in the far future. I doubt that these dynamics will suit those who prefer freedom to security, but natural systems are famously unconcerned about the happiness of individuals.
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