Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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Michael McMahon
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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“Dreams are meaningful in that they arise from stimuli that can be related to real life experiences. For example, we would not be able to visually dream about a car or house without real life perceptual experiences and references relative to cars and houses. This is confirmed by the non visual, tactile dream content of the congenitally blind.”
https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/123 ... -dreaming/
https://www.healthline.com/health/can-b ... m-contents

Yes, a dream is not an entirely self-contained reality as the dream ingredients are ultimately based on our own personal memories. Other characters within our dreams aren’t conscious. We can’t directly see the dreams that other people have. But I deduce that dreams are still somehow separate from this reality as we never knowingly plan for what the dream will create. Dreams are always full of surprises in spite of the fact that the tales are influenced by our previous experiences.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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“I think of Free Will as another force of reality. It is the force that installs intelligence in matter to discover and manipulate the nature of all other forces.”
- The Beast

We don’t think of pets like dogs to be insentient robots. We usually assume they’ve a carefree superficial consciousness that lacks rationality and self-awareness. While they can respond and adapt to novel stimuli, we often conclude they don’t have much free will. Therefore if free will is like an electromagnetic force, we’ll then have to understand why our brains have more free will capacity than other animals.

Monkeys might hypothetically have physically similar neurons but they don’t have the exact “circuitry” and large complex neuronal arrangement that humans have. I think I’ve some free will when I move my arm yet a monkey doesn’t appear to have much insight into their own arm movements. There’s obviously plenty of factors that led humans to evolve into rational creatures. We have bipedal locomotion and ways to verbally communicate with each other. Another very intriguing difference is that we sleep more efficiently than other primates:

“Humans slept the least. The sleepiest primates were grey mouse lemurs and night monkeys, which slept for 15 and 17 hours respectively.
But in contrast, humans spent the highest proportion of their sleep in an REM state: almost 25%. "Humans therefore have the deepest sleep of any primate," says Samson...
Sleep is particularly important when we are very young, especially REM sleep. Infants spend far more time in REM sleep than children or adults.
If you compare a child's REM sleep to that of an adult, the difference is much greater than it is between humans and chimpanzees, he says. This might mean that getting enough quality sleep early on in life was more important in helping our ancestors develop into ever big-brained hominins.”
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160121 ... -so-little
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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“A puzzle is a game, problem, or toy that tests a person's ingenuity or knowledge. In a puzzle, the solver is expected to put pieces together in a logical way, in order to arrive at the correct or fun solution of the puzzle. There are different genres of puzzles, such as crossword puzzles, word-search puzzles, number puzzles, relational puzzles, and logic puzzles.

Puzzles are often created to be a form of entertainment but they can also arise from serious mathematical or logical problems.”
- Wikipedia

Dreams are like puzzles where we can see how much it differs from reality. We can spot the differences during a vivid dream or lucidity test.

“Spot the difference is a type of puzzle where players must find a set number of differences between two otherwise similar images, whether they are illustrations or photographs that have been altered with photo manipulation.”
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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“In contemporary philosophy, a brute fact is a fact that has no explanation. More narrowly, brute facts may instead be defined as those facts which cannot be explained (as opposed to simply having no explanation). To reject the existence of brute facts is to think that everything can be explained ("Everything can be explained" is sometimes called the principle of sufficient reason).”
- Wikipedia

We often try to relax and stop thinking in order to fall asleep. So how does this lack of thinking develop into chaotic dreams? During the day we might have an instance of being forgetful or needing to remind ourselves what we must do. For example, we could forget what day it is or be unsure if we’ve any appointments for later. It’s easy to quickly figure it out with a bit of thought and the confusion doesn’t last long. But in a dream we are so fatigued that we don’t have much critical thinking. So instead of small random thoughts being ignored, they could instead be accepted as brute facts. We are too tired to disprove them. One brute fact leads to another. This is in the same way that a person who’s lying has to come up with yet more lies in order to explain away the circumstances of the first lie. This process is imaginably one way that a complicated dream could be created or solidified.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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“The faster a clock moves, the slower time passes according to someone in a different frame of reference. To explain this bewildering result, physicists point to a thought experiment involving a clock that uses light to mark time. Although this "light clock" experiment is a hypothetical one, the same effects are true for any timepiece, from old-fashioned grandfather clocks to atomic clocks, the most accurate time-keeping devices available. Time is relative even for the human body, which is in essence a biological clock. The effect of time slowing down is negligible at speeds of everyday life, but it becomes very pronounced at speeds approaching that of light.”
https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/einste ... er-of-time

Could it be that in a dream we are projecting light forward? That would mean that the memories in dreams are made of light. So we’re then seeing our own remembered light that the brain has sent out. Our bodies are motionless as it’s paralysed during sleep. Our eyes are rapidly darting in opposing directions so it must be that we lose control of even our sense organs; we never feel our eyes moving in opposite directions. Therefore our bodies and sense organs aren’t moving in the spatial dimension. So if the brain were like a clock where time passes more slowly as the clock is travelling faster, then stationary sleep means that it’s inverted and time goes more quickly as we aren’t wasting any energy by moving through the dimension of space.


“Intriguingly, someone moving will not think that her clock is running slow, because everything in her frame of reference will have slowed down as well.”
- The dream story goes at the same pace as the sleeping mind’s rate of attentiveness.


“Emission theory is the proposal that visual perception is accomplished by eye beams emitted by the eyes.”
If the reminiscent light in dreams were internally created, it’d have to be moving at the same speed of light as the external light we see when we awaken.



“What happens, however, if causality is not strictly broken? In this context, Pienaar et al. considered a special case of Deutschian CTCs known as open timelike curves13 (OTCs). Consider a particle that travels back in time with respect to a chronology-respecting observer, but is completely isolated from anything that can affect its own causal past during the time-traveling process (See Figure 1). While the time-traveling particle has the potential to break causality, its complete isolation ensures that causality never actually breaks. Nevertheless, such OTCs can violate uncertainty principles between position and momentum.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/npjqi20157

We are always travelling through time at one second per second. What if accelerating our motion through time could be passively achieved by simply dulling our perception? If you’ve nothing to even perceive then you’re unable to measure the apparent rate of mental time.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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“Our biological clocks drive our circadian rhythms. These internal clocks are groupings of interacting molecules in cells throughout the body. A “master clock” in the brain coordinates all the body clocks so that they are in synch...
Bottom line: After we set the clocks back – or forward – our body’s biological clock needs time to adjust.”
https://earthsky.org/human-world/cool-f ... ical-clock

As circadian rhythms can keep track of time while we’re awake, then it’s just as though we can liken sleep to forward biological time travel.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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“Biological clocks are composed of genes and proteins that operate in a feedback loop. Clock genes contain instructions for making clock proteins, whose levels rise and fall in a regular cyclic pattern...
The “master clock” that controls circadian rhythms consists of a group of nerve cells in the brain called the suprachiasmatic nucleus, or SCN. The SCN contains about 20,000 nerve cells and is located in the hypothalamus, an area of the brain just above where the optic nerves from the eyes cross.

Maybe consciousness itself is akin to a biological timepiece. It would be equivalent to the flow of time detected by sum-total of these various “clock gene” devices.
Michael McMahon
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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A quote: “time keeps everything from happening at once.”

Maybe the natural tendency is for everything to co-occur; time itself would counterintuitively slow down (decelerate) the process of each event coinciding. During your sleep the outside world appears to keep moving by without your input or awareness of time. Is it possible that accelerating through time could be achieved by reducing conscious attentiveness? So the experience of time would be an active process that proportionally and equally slows down the velocity of all objects throughout your visual field. Sleep might be a lifeless rarefaction of time that energetically compresses when we wake up. For all I know other people could be experiencing a marginally different subjective rate of time than my own.

“Rarefaction is the reduction of an item's density, the opposite of compression. Like compression, which can travel in waves, rarefaction waves also exist in nature. A common rarefaction wave is the area of low relative pressure following a shock wave. Rarefaction waves expand with time.”
- educalingo
Michael McMahon
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2020, 9:51 am
Talk of archetypes is not productive since we each have our own. Their appearance in dreams is not a message just a random dip into a mass of data, in which one part of the brain makes sense of a jumble in the other.
Encryption is a loaded word, a highly organised and purposeful process that does not really apply in any meaningful sense here.
A dream can be very complex. It’s narratives are much more intricate than real-life experiences. The conscious mind and subconscious thoughts aren’t that complicated when we’re awake and everything goes smoothly. Even if I have a really boring day where nothing happens I could still have bizarre dreams. People can have a carefree week yet they could nonetheless have a tense chaotic nightmare. The intensity of dreams doesn’t always correspond to our daily activity or stress levels. Each night every dream is different. So where does this extra complexity come from during sleep?

Maybe the pulsating neurons and neuronal systems are providing the biometric encryption source for dreams. It would be like dreams were scrambled information and the brain being a descrambling device. So the brain would slowly subconsciously suss out the meaning or relevance of a concealed dream as we go about through the day. The random after-effects of dreams could provide a gradual type of free will. A vivid dream is just as though we’re eavesdropping on this unconscious process.



“In telecommunications, a scrambler is a device that transposes or inverts signals or otherwise encodes a message at the sender's side to make the message unintelligible at a receiver not equipped with an appropriately set descrambling device. Whereas encryption usually refers to operations carried out in the digital domain, scrambling usually refers to operations carried out in the analog domain. Scrambling is accomplished by the addition of components to the original signal or the changing of some important component of the original signal in order to make extraction of the original signal difficult.” -Wikipedia
Michael McMahon
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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“Existing brain-computer interfaces, such as those that control some prosthetic limbs, typically use algorithms called supervised decoders. These rely on simultaneous recording of both neural activity and moment-by-moment movement details, including limb position and speed—a time-consuming, laborious process. This information is then used to train the decoder to translate neural patterns into their corresponding movements. In cryptography terms, this would be like comparing a number of already decrypted messages with their encrypted versions to reverse engineer the key.
In contrast, Dyer's team sought to predict movements using only the “encrypted messages” (neural activity) and a general understanding of the patterns that pop up in certain movements.”
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... igma-code/

Neural activity is being analysed cryptographically for the devices in the above article. In my opinion, the encryption “key” is like our emotional framework that we use to guide our free decisions. So happiness is like a key in order to incentivise a certain outcome. Our memories of the past are similar to the “decrypted message” where we already know what had happened. The dream simulations equate to the “encrypted messages” of an imaginary possible future event. Afterwards we must consider these possible future paths as a benchmark to gauge our own desires and motivations.

Benchmark definition: “used as a standard when comparing other things.”
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Sculptor1
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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Michael McMahon wrote: December 20th, 2020, 10:17 am
Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2020, 9:51 am
Talk of archetypes is not productive since we each have our own. Their appearance in dreams is not a message just a random dip into a mass of data, in which one part of the brain makes sense of a jumble in the other.
Encryption is a loaded word, a highly organised and purposeful process that does not really apply in any meaningful sense here.
A dream can be very complex. It’s narratives are much more intricate than real-life experiences. The conscious mind and subconscious thoughts aren’t that complicated when we’re awake and everything goes smoothly. Even if I have a really boring day where nothing happens I could still have bizarre dreams. People can have a carefree week yet they could nonetheless have a tense chaotic nightmare. The intensity of dreams doesn’t always correspond to our daily activity or stress levels. Each night every dream is different. So where does this extra complexity come from during sleep?

Maybe the pulsating neurons and neuronal systems are providing the biometric encryption source for dreams. It would be like dreams were scrambled information and the brain being a descrambling device. So the brain would slowly subconsciously suss out the meaning or relevance of a concealed dream as we go about through the day. The random after-effects of dreams could provide a gradual type of free will. A vivid dream is just as though we’re eavesdropping on this unconscious process.



“In telecommunications, a scrambler is a device that transposes or inverts signals or otherwise encodes a message at the sender's side to make the message unintelligible at a receiver not equipped with an appropriately set descrambling device. Whereas encryption usually refers to operations carried out in the digital domain, scrambling usually refers to operations carried out in the analog domain. Scrambling is accomplished by the addition of components to the original signal or the changing of some important component of the original signal in order to make extraction of the original signal difficult.” -Wikipedia
We are not designed.
We are evolved.
Because of this dreaming is something we do which is likely to be important to survival, but like most evolved traits I think it is a mistake to too heavily prescribe a direct and easily understandable function. Like so much in life things are the way they are and happen for no particular reason. Even if we were to prove without doubt the utter necessity of dreams for survival, and exactly that they are necessary, their consequences cannot be so easily defined. And there is no doubt that the dreamed experience does not map directly onto any such suggestions.

Science so often makes the mistake of teleology. It confuses purpose with function. This is an all too human trait.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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Sculptor1 wrote: December 20th, 2020, 1:20 pm Because of this dreaming is something we do which is likely to be important to survival, but like most evolved traits I think it is a mistake to too heavily prescribe a direct and easily understandable function. Like so much in life things are the way they are and happen for no particular reason.
OK that’s fair enough. I get the impression that we often think of the free will and determinism debate as if we’ve free will over the current moment even though our long-term future is somehow determined. I was approaching it from the opposite angle where our short-term might behave deterministically while our long-term future is free and open-ended. This might at first glance seem contradictory as the long term is ultimately made up of many short term intervals. But one mustn’t ignore the potentially slow latent effects of our sporadic nightly dreams and the general existential “absurdity” of any possible path that we can choose from. This is like where we’re not picking the best path but merely being able to select the least absurd path.

Latent definition:
(of a quality or state) existing but not yet developed or manifest; hidden or concealed.
lying dormant or hidden until circumstances are suitable for development or manifestation.

Least-worst definition: bad but better than any available alternative.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Michael McMahon wrote: December 21st, 2020, 10:22 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 20th, 2020, 1:20 pm Because of this dreaming is something we do which is likely to be important to survival, but like most evolved traits I think it is a mistake to too heavily prescribe a direct and easily understandable function. Like so much in life things are the way they are and happen for no particular reason.
OK that’s fair enough. I get the impression that we often think of the free will and determinism debate as if we’ve free will over the current moment even though our long-term future is somehow determined. I was approaching it from the opposite angle where our short-term might behave deterministically while our long-term future is free and open-ended. This might at first glance seem contradictory as the long term is ultimately made up of many short term intervals. But one mustn’t ignore the potentially slow latent effects of our sporadic nightly dreams and the general existential “absurdity” of any possible path that we can choose from. This is like where we’re not picking the best path but merely being able to select the least absurd path.

Latent definition:
(of a quality or state) existing but not yet developed or manifest; hidden or concealed.
lying dormant or hidden until circumstances are suitable for development or manifestation.

Least-worst definition: bad but better than any available alternative.
I do not buy any free will/determinism confusions. the universe is a universe of cause and effect or it is not. Aside from the possibility of apparently spontaneous effects (which could be of causes yet unknown), determinism wins all the way. I see no scope in any sense for "free" will. We are certianly willful beings, but how could we be free in that radical sense.
When I exert my will I do so with due consideration of the state of affairs that pertain; my motivation at the time; my edication; volition; needs; etc.. all make me determined to act in the way that I do. Where does the free bit come in? How does that make any sense at all?

I'm not sure what you are defining above?

I've always felt that dreams are a sort of sorting out process. I think encryption is a far too formal word to describe what is going on here.
When I sort my clothes washing out, before the socks go in the sock drawer, and the t-shirts go in the t-shirt drawer, they are jumbled up and socks go with pants and dish cloths , as I sort them I dig through and match up socks etc.. Maybe the events of the day are getting organised into your personal narritive? But as that happens the day's news; the shopping list; the meeting with the client; are compared with our sock drawer labeled "archetypes"; and "fears";" hopes"; "goals". and room has to be made for new stuff. this crossing over of the laundary of events makes a weird narritive until the job gets done.
Sleep deprived people can get pretty screwed up - there is no doubt that something is happening here.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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Sculptor1: “Aside from the possibility of apparently spontaneous effects (which could be of causes yet unknown), determinism wins all the way. I see no scope in any sense for "free" will. We are certianly willful beings, but how could we be free in that radical sense.”

Multiverse definition:
a hypothetical space or realm consisting of a number of universes, of which our own universe is only one.

Maybe if I took it to a somewhat sci-fi level, we can appreciate the otherwise basic parts of the technique. We could invert the multiverse idea to say that each person’s conscious mind is a sub-reality “micro-verse” of sorts within the larger universe. Dreams are miniaturised versions of our own reality. Everyone inside the dream are fake; they’re deterministic minions of our subconscious! Our later free whims are inspired from a colliding of ideas within these dream simulations.

Miniature: used to describe something that is a very small copy of an object
Minion: a follower or underling of a powerful person, especially a servile or unimportant one.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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“Science fiction movies are "the art of the possible." Using camera tricks and computer graphics allows studios to generate things that defy nature, physics, and everything we know. Here is a thought: science fiction defies what we know today. They show what can become reality tomorrow... Science Fiction is not grounded in what we know today, but it is a great source to what can be real tomorrow.”
- inc com

Dreams aren’t exactly real futures but they could nonetheless be contrasted to our physical waking selves. They’re a reference point for our motivations. So while we seldom dream about futuristic technology, sleep is still like “psychological fiction”. Parts of it could be indirectly relatable and so it occasionally adds creativity to our own daily routines.

“In literature, psychological fiction (also psychological realism) is a narrative genre that emphasizes interior characterization and motivation to explore the spiritual, emotional, and mental lives of the characters. The mode of narration examines the reasons for the behaviors of the character, which propel the plot and explain the story.”
- Wikipedia
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