Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

[Michael McMahon]

Duckrabbit: “I would suggest, if you are really interested in the subject of dreams and dreaming, you might forgo theoretical physics and information science, and invest some time in checking out psychology. A great place to start: Freud's The Interpretation of Dreams (1896).”

Belindi: “Remembered dreams are interpreted in the same way as we interpret other figurative material.”

I believe one difference between metaphors and dreams is that dreams are far more open to interpretation. A dream’s subject matter could have multiple shades of meaning. The cliffhangers at the end of the dream allows us to finally conclude it when we awaken. Our free decisions are a follow-through from dreams. Dreaming is open-ended and subjective so I don’t think there’s only one clear-cut way to interpret a dream. I consider dreaming as a process that allows us to be instinctively creative. It’s not so much that sleep solves your exact problems but that it gives you the raw ability to be creative when you awaken. A specific dream may not have any ingenious insights but I suppose it’s the free-thinking mindset that sleep is trying to hone. For instance, a math test gives marks not just for the solution but also for showing your workings. So it’s not simply the answers that the dream character works out that’s important but also the method and reasoning used in order to get that solution.

[Belindi]

Duckrabbit: “I would suggest, if you are really interested in the subject of dreams and dreaming, you might forgo theoretical physics and information science, and invest some time in checking out psychology. A great place to start: Freud's The Interpretation of Dreams (1896).”

Belindi: “Remembered dreams are interpreted in the same way as we interpret other figurative material.”

I believe one difference between metaphors and dreams is that dreams are far more open to interpretation. A dream’s subject matter could have multiple shades of meaning. The cliffhangers at the end of the dream allows us to finally conclude it when we awaken. Our free decisions are a follow-through from dreams. Dreaming is open-ended and subjective so I don’t think there’s only one clear-cut way to interpret a dream. I consider dreaming as a process that allows us to be instinctively creative. It’s not so much that sleep solves your exact problems but that it gives you the raw ability to be creative when you awaken. A specific dream may not have any ingenious insights but I suppose it’s the free-thinking mindset that sleep is trying to hone. For instance, a math test gives marks not just for the solution but also for showing your workings. So it’s not simply the answers that the dream character works out that’s important but also the method and reasoning used in order to get that solution.

But there is not " only one clear cut way" to interpret any figurative text. A figurative text has layers of meaning; layers of meaning as intended by the poet or dramatist.
True, the layers of meaning in a dream are unintended by the dreamer. The dream is like a found object and you superimpose on it whatever interpretation you choose.

Some modern works of art aim to be like found objects or banal objects transposed to an art gallery where the thing to do is to interpret stuff.

[Michael McMahon]

Belindi: “Some modern works of art aim to be like found objects or banal objects transposed to an art gallery where the thing to do is to interpret stuff.”

Yes I think modern art is a great analogy for dreams. The unconventional design allows us to reflect on its hidden meaning. We can only relate to it by expanding our awareness and openness. We are able to increase our self-knowledge by being receptive to the internal monologue and paradigm of the dream.

“For most of us, this incomprehensibility is the underlying criterion for any work of art to be classified as ‘modern art’. It goes to an extreme that whenever we fail to understand any artwork, we label it as modern art!

... The biggest difficulty in understanding a piece of modern art is that one cannot relate it with the forms and features of the world around us. Even if human forms are depicted here, they are mostly distorted and one can easily see that they are quite far off from actual human form in terms of anatomical details and body proportions.

... The first aspect in which modern art differs from traditional art is in its subject matter. The traditional art concerned itself mostly with the upper class subjects — the rich and the powerful, whereas in the modern art we come across depiction of common people in everyday situations and feeling ordinary human emotions.

... Most importantly, the basis of modern art is in ideas and concepts, which may or may not be abstract in nature. In Prof. Majumdar’s words, “Modern art is an interpretation of reality, instead of an imitation of reality.””
https://pradyot.net/2017/03/14/modern-a ... ional-art/

“Self-knowledge is a term used in psychology to describe the information that an individual draws upon when finding an answer to the question "What am I like?"...
Self-knowledge and its structure affect how events we experience are encoded, how they are selectively retrieved/recalled, and what conclusions we draw from how we interpret the memory. The analytical interpretation of our own memory can also be called meta memory, and is an important factor of meta cognition.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-kn ... sychology)

[Belindi]

Michael McMahon quoted:

In Prof. Majumdar’s words, “Modern art is an interpretation of reality, instead of an imitation of reality.””

Yes, especially for the viewers or audience.

The artist himself has an agenda otherwise he would select any old thing such as a clod of wet clay that lacks form. I cannot think of any work of art that lacks form.

Do dreams lack form before they are crystallised in language or some other medium?

[Michael McMahon]

Belindi: “Do dreams lack form before they are crystallised in language or some other medium?”

“When used in tandem with the word art as in art form, it can also mean a medium of artistic expression recognized as fine art or an unconventional medium done so well, adroitly, or creatively as to elevate it to the level of fine art.
... In addition, to form, they include line, shape, value, color, texture, and space. As an Element of Art, form connotes something that is three-dimensional and encloses volume, having length, width, and height, versus shape, which is two-dimensional, or flat. A form is a shape in three dimensions, and, like shapes, can be geometric or organic.”
https://www.thoughtco.com/definition-of ... art-182437

I surmise that some dreams can be indecipherable because the content can be chaotic and too “irreducibly complex” to be understood. A few dreams might as you say lack form and be a bit amorphous. Although I don’t know whether the patterns and shapes in dreams are technically geometrically formless or just peculiar. Young children tend to sleep more than adults even though they don’t have a developed language or medium to describe their dreams. So I think you’re right that some dreams can be without much predetermined form. It’s interesting to note that in a mathematical sense the lack of order actually leads to more information:

“So the string that contains the most amount of information is just a random set of zeroes and ones. It has maximum entropy because it’s totally disordered. You could not predict any of those digits by looking at the other digits. And if you wanted to send this information to someone you would have no other option but to send the whole string of digits. There’s no way to compress it... We are drawn to things that are neither perfectly ordered (containing no information); nor are they perfectly disorder (containing maximum information). Somewhere in the middle we can recognise complex patterns and that is where we derive meaning in music, poetry and ideas.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sMb00lz-IfE
(3:30 until 5:15 minute)



On page 5, I mentioned postselection. I talked about dream imagery and linguistic narration in the middle of page 8. Maybe an emotional state is first activated during sleep and our minds then create a dream story that would have led to that particular emotion. So the dream would work backward from a specific feeling.

“...One can gain retrospective knowledge of what happened in a quantum system by selecting the outcome: Instead of simply measuring where a particle ends up, a researcher chooses a particular location in which to look for it. This is called postselection, and it supplies more information than any unconditional peek at outcomes ever could. This is because the particle’s state at any instant is being evaluated retrospectively in light of its entire history, up to and including measurement. The oddness comes in because it looks as if the researcher—simply by choosing to look for a particular outcome—then causes that outcome to happen. But this is a bit like concluding that if you turn on your television when your favorite program is scheduled, your action causes that program to be broadcast at that very moment.”
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... you-think/

[Michael McMahon]

“Short-term sessions of sensory deprivation are described as relaxing and conducive to meditation; however, extended or forced sensory deprivation can result in extreme anxiety, hallucinations, bizarre thoughts, temporary senselessness, and depression.”

The shut-eye of sleep resembles elements of sensory deprivation.

“Previous research that found increased creativity in university students after floating sessions measured their abilities immediately after they left the tank and dried off...
Many floaters experience hallucinations as their brains respond to not getting sensory input. This is part of the vivid mental imagery I mentioned earlier—your brain is relaxed enough to visualize strong images you wouldn’t see normally.”
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/buffer.com/ ... -mind/amp/




“Now psychedelics can replace the filter. They can provide us with alternate ways of comprehending reality, which in certain cases may provide us with a less human but thus more veridical—real—view of Nature.

Though some see similarities between dreams and psychedelic states, the former are generally far more akin to ordinary consciousness—with their clear implicit distinction between self and other, their narrative structure, known feelings, etc.

I personally see dreams, nightmares and night terrors as interesting and insightful areas for study. But we must distinguish these from the varieties of psychedelic experience, and from hypnagogia—the primarily visual experiences one can have at the cusp of sleep.”
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/filtermag.o ... ciousness/

Drugs like alcohol seem to only exaggerate and amplify pre-existing emotions. Alcohol could for instance make someone more impulsive or comical. But another person could achieve the same jovial sensations without taking any drug. So psychedelics might be simply activating features of normal dreaming perceptions while the person is still awake.




Organised chaos definition: “a complex situation or process that appears chaotic while having enough order to achieve progress or goals.”

I think the organised chaos of dreams have a hidden function. If you could completely explain the precise logic of why a free decision was made, then that decision would in actual fact have essentially been deterministic in nature and not free. So for me it would makes sense that a process involved in the appearance of free will would be slightly unaccountable and deceptively leave behind little evidence of ever having occurred. Dreams don’t have a physical basis in our shared objective reality but they have semi-existence relative to our subjective consciousness and memory. Free will implies a uniquely personal and concealed system of causality.

[Belindi]

I am more inclined to believe dreaming is an epiphenomenon of a brain activity , which in turn is governed by neurochemical substances that activate according to circadian rhythms.

I do not believe in the doctrine of Free Will.

[Michael McMahon]

Chronology definition: “The order in which a series of events happened, or a list or explanation of these events in the order in which they happened.”

Our memories of disparate events are jumbled together in a dream. This mixed up dream chronology might lead to the unusual dream story. It’s a mash-up of memories and past insights.





“Over the millennia a myriad of devices has been invented for timekeeping, but what they all have in common is that they depend on natural phenomena with regular periods of oscillation. Timekeeping is simply a matter of counting these oscillations to mark the passage of time.

For much of history, the chosen periodic phenomenon was the apparent motion of the Sun and stars across the sky, caused by the Earth spinning about its own axis... This method evolved into the sundial, or shadow clock, with markers along the shadow’s path dividing the day into segments.”
- Physics world

We have no regular patterns to measure time in a dream as we are without our usual sensory input. The variation in dream recall and vividness seems to suggest that subjective time is progressing unevenly inside a dream. The rate at which time passes is dependent on our own imagination during sleep.

Timelessness define: “Independent of time; eternal.”

“If you’re dreaming, the time on a clock will constantly change. But if you’re awake, the time will barely change.”
- Healthline

[Michael McMahon]

Belindi: “I do not believe in the doctrine of Free Will.”

I respect your view. Sleep probably has many functions. I’m sure our muscles opportunistically take advantage of sleep for recovery purposes. The brain’s “circadian rhythms” will always help us structure our daily routines. But I think that dreams are always unpredictable. We never know what will happen next in a dream. I’ve a feeling that this dreamful unpredictability is relevant to our perception of free will.

[Michael McMahon]

pdf file

[Michael McMahon]

(pdf re-attempt)

[Belindi]

Belindi: “I do not believe in the doctrine of Free Will.”

I respect your view. Sleep probably has many functions. I’m sure our muscles opportunistically take advantage of sleep for recovery purposes. The brain’s “circadian rhythms” will always help us structure our daily routines. But I think that dreams are always unpredictable. We never know what will happen next in a dream. I’ve a feeling that this dreamful unpredictability is relevant to our perception of free will.

Dreaming occurs when there is a sort of electro-chemical brain activity + lack of conscious awareness .

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 3478900076

Our perception of what is loosely called " free will" is allied to conscious awareness, and operates , not in dreaming consciousness, but during hallucinating and during
memory-full waking awareness.

I wrote what is loosely called " free will". What is loosely called "free will" is normal experience during waking awareness but is not experienced during the ascendent of REM sleep . Some dreaming does include the feeling of being an active agent, and this sort of dreaming happens at the cusp of waking awareness consciousness and dreaming consciousness. The Free Will v. determinism debate is not about what is normally referred to as "free will" .I am tentative about my claims because it's a long time since I read about the chemistry of consciousness.

[Michael McMahon]

“Dreams and drug-induced hallucinations have several phenomenological similarities, especially with respect to their visual and emotive components. This similarity is hypothesized to be due to a neurochemical mechanism which is common to both states: the inactivation of the brain serotonin system.”
- Belindi’s sciencedirect link

“Another neurochemical agent that associated with emotional states is serotonin (5HT). Serotonin is a neurotransmitter that mediated satisfaction, happiness and optimism. Serotonin levels are reduced in depression, and most modern anti-depressant drugs, known as serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), act by increasing the amount of serotonin available to brain cells. However, what is the relationship between serotonin and positive mood? Researches indicated that increased of serotonin level was related to positive mood.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4449495/

Sometimes we don’t fully control what makes us happy. If we have free will in order to choose a choice that subsequently makes us happy, do we have free will to change what antecedently produces happiness?

A mundane example would be how our taste buds find chocolate to be intrinsically tastier than brussels sprouts. We however never consciously decided to find chocolate tastier. It was apparently pre-decided by evolution where people long ago would have needed the extra calories. If we could volitionally change our happiness sensations, we’d choose the brussels sprouts to be tastier as they are healthier. But we’re unable to do that and instead we must override our instant gratification instinct with guilty feelings in order to choose vegetables over chocolate. We can somehow prioritise the longer-term.

Although how can we ever rationally choose what should freely lead to happiness if that decision is itself biased by subconscious sensations of happiness and considerations of what we ought to do. We are affected by previously made decisions or commitments and also the conflicting interests of friends and societal culture. Maybe by initially diminishing the feeling of happiness, we’d be more capable of logically determining what goals and ambitions are to be rewarding to us.

The absurdity of a few strange dreams might reflect nihilistic emotional states in the unconscious mind. Without the incentive of happiness or the full faculty of memory, our decisions seemingly become more random and irrational. Dreaming is an emotional version of a blank slate*. So a dream’s purpose could be to superficially and fleetingly assess our innermost desires.

“Definition of nihilism:
a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless
/ a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths.”

* tabula rasa: an absence of preconceived ideas or predetermined goals; a clean slate.

[Michael McMahon]

“A key feature of sleep paralysis relevant to the current paper was accompanying hallucinations (strong visual imagery) (Spanos et al., 1995). These often take the form of uncanny “ghost-like” experiences and evoke extreme fear reactions (Jalal, 2018). Cheyne places these into three categories: intruder (sense of evil presence and multi-sensory hallucinations of intruder), incubus (feeling of pressure on the chest, suffocation, and physical pain), and vestibular-motor (feature illusory-movement and out-of-body experiences) (Cheyne et al., 1999b; Cheyne, 2003). Intruder and incubus hallucinations typically co-occur and are accompanied by fear, whereas vestibular-motor hallucinations are more positive (Cheyne, 2003).”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7093643/

Lucid dreaming consciousness is just like sleep paralysis except that your eyelids are still closed when it happens. So a lucid dream simply takes place behind your eyelids. This makes the dream content even more palpably vivid and realistic as you cannot see external light. Sleep paralysis is where the localised hallucinatory elements can be differentiated against the larger backdrop of your real bedroom. Although with lucid dreaming it’s as if the entire generalised reality is confabulated so you’ve nothing real to contrast and distinguish it to. At first this could potentially be disconcerting if you weren’t accustomed to it.



“Paranormal experience correlated with lucid dreaming, nightmares, and sleep paralysis, whereas paranormal belief related only to nightmares and sleep paralysis.”

Technically any normal harmless little dream could be dubbed “paranormal” as its internal logic is fabricated by your own brain rather than reality. We are not physically at risk in a dream as they aren’t real. Therefore we don’t have to care about our wellbeing in a fake dream. This means that dream characters aren’t guided by safety concerns or motivated by happiness. So it’s understandable that some dreams could occasionally descend into darker themes.



“The phrase “The Turing Test” is sometimes used more generally to refer to some kinds of behavioural tests for the presence of mind, or thought, or intelligence in putatively minded entities.”
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/turing-test/

The information existing in the real world far exceeds the extremely limited knowledge available inside an inconsistent dream story. Reality contains information that we couldn’t have concocted ourselves. A dream character might hypothetically be able to speak a gibberish version of sentences with your same linguistic words even though any word they say is something your own mind created. Comparing our own knowledge relative to the new complex ways that others use the same language and the same words that we already know readily proves that you’re not in a dream.

[Michael McMahon]

The mind is often subdivided into the conscious, subconscious and unconscious mind. How does the unconscious compare to the subconscious? Could the subconscious mind usurp total control of the conscious mind? So the sleeping unconscious mind would simply be an exaggerated version of the subconscious. Lets see if Google can provide any analogies!:

“Open any book of speculative science fiction and chances are, the subject of mind control will come up. Not so much the ability to control others with one’s mind (a la telepathy or telekineses), but the ability to interface with machines, send messages, and even exercise control one’s own biological functions through sheer thought. Whether it is enabled by cybernetic implants, nanomachines, or electrodes that transmit thoughts as data, the concept of this technology-enabled kind of telepathy has been around for many decades.”
- herox com

With this comparison, the subconscious would be more or less brainwashing its own consciousness while dreaming. So it’d be an internal and self-referential interpretation of the “brainwashing” term. It’s as though our conscious thoughts during sleep are completely superdetermined by the subconscious.

Superdeterminism definition:
“A superdeterministic theory is one which violates the assumption of Statistical Independence (that distributions of hidden variables are independent of measurement settings)...
The word “retrocausality” suggests information traveling backward in time, but no superdeterministic model has such a feature. In fact, it is not even clear what this would mean in a deterministic theory. Unless one explicitly introduces an arrow of time (eg from entropy increase), in a deterministic theory, the future “causes” the past the same way the present “causes” the future. The word “teleology” is commonly used to mean that a process happens to fulfill a certain purpose which suffices to explain the process...”
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00139/full

Dreams are like the “hidden variables” of our free conscious decisions.