Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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Belindi
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Belindi »

It's a reasonable hypothesis that the collective unconscious influences the more important dreams. I do believe however that the dream imagery should be interpreted according to the mood , not according to the sheer image without the mood component. In your account of the dream about setting up a tent in the wild, camping, and being chased you are right to report "tense", "nightmare", and "stress". These are mood words and as such lead to a useful interpretation . This you did,and as you said, the dream activated you to remain vigilant. Still better would be if the dream activated you to pay attention to some actual events in your life , then you would be helped to some idea of what you need to be vigilant about.

I also agree that if dreams did not present as rather chaotic and at best, symbolic, then the conscious waking mind could not cope with the huge burden of the collective unconscious. So this screening process would have a biological force towards natural selection.

I could interpret your camping in the wilds dream as if it were a short story in a book especially a book written by some symbolist author . However it's unlikely I'd interpret it for me as you interpreted it for yourself , as your dream was personal to you at that particular juncture in your life.

There are major myths that recur again and again across cultures. The theory of Jungian archetypes applies to these major myths. Thus we have heroes, tricksters, mother figures, father figures, wise old man figures, and devilish shadow figures. I'm interested in dream material and mood that reflects those archetypes for individual dreamers.It seems pretty clear to me that the shadowy chaser in your camping dream was the archetypal shadow.
I have actually camped in tents and surprised myself how a thin layer of cotton cloth gives a feeling of security and safety in the wild. Your unconscious mind knew better, didn't it!
Michael McMahon
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

"As Dr. Walker points out, “Sleep is the greatest legal performance enhancing drug that few athletes are abusing enough.” He goes on to state that Roger Federer, Usain Bolt and LeBron James regularly get 12 hours of sleep a day, 10 hours of sleep at night and 2 hours of naps during the day."
https://triathlontraining-coach.com/sle ... eep-a-day/

Mental time travel during sleep could assist our learning capacity. Being able to visualise the beginning and end of a tennis swing would almost be like you were jumping through time. Traditionally we learn poems through repetition and forming associations in our minds about imagery and synonyms. But another common tactic is to start the poem from irregular intervals to test if you fully understood it. For example when you're repeating the lines in your mind you could begin at the last verse and check if you remembered the second verse afterwards.

Notice how the stills, slow motions and rewinds can help in the analysis of Roger Federer's time-travelling shots:
Roger Federer Forehand | The Racquet Drop and Lag
(Denis Hendrickson)
Michael McMahon
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

Belindi wrote: September 9th, 2022, 12:47 pm It's a reasonable hypothesis that the collective unconscious influences the more important dreams. I do believe however that the dream imagery should be interpreted according to the mood , not according to the sheer image without the mood component.
If our brain is made from genetics then it's safe to say some of our dreams our influenced by our genetic ancestry. Maybe we don't experience the exact same dreams as they had because we might interpret their emotional mindset and moods in a different context. For example if we felt the same fear sensation in a dream as our ancestors did then we'd re-interpret the fear as arising through a modern series of events. A related concept is genetic memory which was mentioned in the penultimate post page 6.
Belindi
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Belindi »

Michael McMahon wrote: September 10th, 2022, 4:12 pm
Belindi wrote: September 9th, 2022, 12:47 pm It's a reasonable hypothesis that the collective unconscious influences the more important dreams. I do believe however that the dream imagery should be interpreted according to the mood , not according to the sheer image without the mood component.
If our brain is made from genetics then it's safe to say some of our dreams our influenced by our genetic ancestry. Maybe we don't experience the exact same dreams as they had because we might interpret their emotional mindset and moods in a different context. For example if we felt the same fear sensation in a dream as our ancestors did then we'd re-interpret the fear as arising through a modern series of events. A related concept is genetic memory which was mentioned in the penultimate post page 6.
Jungian archetypes are indeed 'biological' in the sense that they are common to all human cultures in every time and place. I understand (maybe I am mistaken ?) anthropologists find cross-cultural similarities in the myths of different societies.
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JackDaydream
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by JackDaydream »

Belindi wrote: September 11th, 2022, 5:41 am
Michael McMahon wrote: September 10th, 2022, 4:12 pm
Belindi wrote: September 9th, 2022, 12:47 pm It's a reasonable hypothesis that the collective unconscious influences the more important dreams. I do believe however that the dream imagery should be interpreted according to the mood , not according to the sheer image without the mood component.
If our brain is made from genetics then it's safe to say some of our dreams our influenced by our genetic ancestry. Maybe we don't experience the exact same dreams as they had because we might interpret their emotional mindset and moods in a different context. For example if we felt the same fear sensation in a dream as our ancestors did then we'd re-interpret the fear as arising through a modern series of events. A related concept is genetic memory which was mentioned in the penultimate post page 6.
Jungian archetypes are indeed 'biological' in the sense that they are common to all human cultures in every time and place. I understand (maybe I am mistaken ?) anthropologists find cross-cultural similarities in the myths of different societies.
The Jungian idea of archetypes in understanding dreams is important but it comes from two basic strands of thinking, ranging from the ideas of the soul going back to Hermeticism and the invisible, as well as the biological aspects of these. Jung seems to come from both angles and I see it as extremely important. I read your post a few days ago and I have started my own thread on sleep and dreaming, but have wondered if I would have been better to continue here. My own thread may be so insignificant because this is a thread which has been going for so long. Even if my own thread fails completely, I think that your point about Jungian archetypes is important because they may not be 'out there' realities, but aspects arising in biology and its basic impact on psychological subjective experience, especially that which is experienced in dreams.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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JackDaydream wrote: September 16th, 2022, 10:54 am My own thread may be so insignificant because this is a thread which has been going for so long.
Some viewers might be deterred from reading my thread because of my somewhat extremist views on sleep. This means they might miss out on some of the more "moderate" posts in the thread. So I don't mind if other people want to start threads on similar topics. Thank you very much for referencing me in your own thread "What is the Significance of Sleep and the Nocturnal Side of Consciousness?".
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

Belindi wrote: September 11th, 2022, 5:41 am Jungian archetypes are indeed 'biological' in the sense that they are common to all human cultures in every time and place.
Our breathing patterns are semi-voluntary and reflect both our genetics and our current state of mind. There are many of these biological cues that might be too chaotic for others to notice. Nonetheless our unconscious and ancestral unconscious might be able to use these signals to understand our current stress levels. As such there might be ways for dreams to be activated relative to our collective unconscious.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

Excessive negative self-talk might lead to sadness but too much positive self-talk could lead to complacency and overconfidence. An example of playing devil's advocate to yourself might be to start with a conspiratorial phrase. "This is what went wrong" or "You know why this isn't working" could make you finish the sentences in a way that reflects your ambitions.
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JackDaydream
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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Michael McMahon wrote: September 18th, 2022, 4:49 pm
JackDaydream wrote: September 16th, 2022, 10:54 am My own thread may be so insignificant because this is a thread which has been going for so long.
Some viewers might be deterred from reading my thread because of my somewhat extremist views on sleep. This means they might miss out on some of the more "moderate" posts in the thread. So I don't mind if other people want to start threads on similar topics. Thank you very much for referencing me in your own thread "What is the Significance of Sleep and the Nocturnal Side of Consciousness?".
I am glad that you are not annoyed that I have started a thread on dreams. I do read yours and did write a couple of posts a few weeks ago. Generally, I see yours as being like a personal journal even though you do engage with others as well.

My own interest is influenced by Jung to a large extent but I like to approach dreams from a multidisciplinary approach, ranging from the ideas in cognitive science, to anthropology. I also have a strong interest in shamanism and transpersonal psychology and philosophy. I began reading Freud around the same time as Jung and do see Freud as having some importance, even though some see him as extremely outdated and unscientific. If anything, I see his own approach as pointing to the 'uncanny' in dream logic and symbolism, as portrayed in the movement of surrealist art.

Dreams and sleep may be considered as peripheral in philosophy and it is probably a shame because they are a large aspect of life. Your approach is fairly unusual but I would imagine that a lot of people read your thread because it has been going for a long time. I will continue with my own but I am not expecting much interest in mine and I have only had 2 people engaging with me so far. So, it is likely that I will continue to read yours in the future.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

This vivid dream had me in a restaurant in Turkey. I visited Turkey in real life a few months ago doing a series of tennis tournaments. In the dream I was climbing up the sun umbrellas by the outside seating. Then I jumped to the balconies on the upper floors. I never practiced climbing up buildings before but I told myself that the risk of falling would improve my reflexes. I knew I was in Turkey by the way my dream character had tried to convert the currency in the restaurant to euros by dividing by 10. I didn't mention tennis in the dream but when I awoke I related the dream to my tennis practice. The danger of losing a tennis matches forces you to focus harder on your technique compared to a training session. In other words sport competitions can artificially activate your survival instincts much like you were a tightrope walker. I imagine a tightrope walker learns their skill not only by mentally rehearsing their walking technique but also by taking risks with their safety which forces them to hyperfocus on their strides. Likewise the fear of losing a competetive match in tennis forces you to work harder than a neutral training session.
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JackDaydream
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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Michael McMahon wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:21 am This vivid dream had me in a restaurant in Turkey. I visited Turkey in real life a few months ago doing a series of tennis tournaments. In the dream I was climbing up the sun umbrellas by the outside seating. Then I jumped to the balconies on the upper floors. I never practiced climbing up buildings before but I told myself that the risk of falling would improve my reflexes. I knew I was in Turkey by the way my dream character had tried to convert the currency in the restaurant to euros by dividing by 10. I didn't mention tennis in the dream but when I awoke I related the dream to my tennis practice. The danger of losing a tennis matches forces you to focus harder on your technique compared to a training session. In other words sport competitions can artificially activate your survival instincts much like you were a tightrope walker. I imagine a tightrope walker learns their skill not only by mentally rehearsing their walking technique but also by taking risks with their safety which forces them to hyperfocus on their strides. Likewise the fear of losing a competetive match in tennis forces you to work harder than a neutral training session.
I just thought I might as well tell you a really troubling dream which I had a week ago. It was while I while I was experimenting with the supplement, Melatonin, which I stopped using because the dream was rather unnerving.

I dreamt of the world ending. Everything became dark and a huge cavern opened up in the earth. I could see dead bodies in the cavern, and I woke up. Waking up was a great relief but I felt unnerved by the dream all day. I have often had intense, strange dreams. I once dreamed that the moon split in two. I do also have some recurring dreams, which are likely to be related to significant personal issues. I do wonder why some people have more vivid dreams than others. Do you ever have dreams which you feel disturbed by?
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JackDaydream
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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Extra: After writing the post above , I wondered whether I should have put it in my thread instead of yours. So, I may write a similar one in mine, to see if anyone is interested.

When my threads fade I let them fizzle, because I do write them on many different topics. However, I am aware that you keep on going and going. I probably wouldn't keep writing on one thread to the exteny that you have, but it is possible that I go to the other extreme though not trying to develop them enough.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

JackDaydream wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:32 am I dreamt of the world ending. Everything became dark and a huge cavern opened up in the earth. I could see dead bodies in the cavern, and I woke up. Waking up was a great relief but I felt unnerved by the dream all day. I have often had intense, strange dreams.
It's possible to interpret your dream individually relative to your personal life but also collectively. The Russian president has made repeated threats of nuclear attacks during the Ukrainian war. The violent political climate could play out in our dreams.
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JackDaydream
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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Michael McMahon wrote: September 25th, 2022, 11:42 am
JackDaydream wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:32 am I dreamt of the world ending. Everything became dark and a huge cavern opened up in the earth. I could see dead bodies in the cavern, and I woke up. Waking up was a great relief but I felt unnerved by the dream all day. I have often had intense, strange dreams.
It's possible to interpret your dream individually relative to your personal life but also collectively. The Russian president has made repeated threats of nuclear attacks during the Ukrainian war. The violent political climate could play out in our dreams.
I definitely think that my dream about the end of the world is related to what is going on in the world and the fear of many. When I told the dream to someone yesterday, he remarked, 'that is how it may be if it happens'. The reason why I probably had the dream is probably because I have always worried about the end of the world. Initially, this was in a religious context, but later, more in connection with ecology and nuclear threats. So many people are worried about what will happen in connection with Russia. Also, some people may be more sensitive in being affected by the wider cultural fears in their imagination and dreaming.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

In a dream I was going for a walk in my local woods. I noticed the usual gate entry was steep with stones from construction work and I used a grassy path nearby instead. In the woods I somehow took off my face very casually as if it were a mask. I left the face mask by a tree and went for a walk where I felt refreshingly lighter. When I returned to collect the mask I noticed that it had a few ants crawling around. I concluded that it'd be better for my hygiene if I kept with the bony and fleshy look. Parts of my forehead had a pure, clean white colour. I thought I seemed lean when I looked into a reflective car window by the road. Who knows why my unconscious would think up such a hideous plot. Perhaps the dream is telling me not to judge myself solely by my body in case I were to ever get injured. Or else the dream could be reminding me not to think of my body unhygienically as if I was only sweaty skin. This is related to our proprioception and our sense of self in the body.
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