Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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Belindi
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Belindi »

Michael McMahon wrote:
It felt like I was watching a John Wick movie in today's dream. My character was walking up the stairs of a four-story building. At the top floor my character attacked some people and the odd thing is that one of them appeared to shrink after they'd been killed. Perhaps they were like the witch in the Wizard of Oz who evaporated when she came in contact with water. One interpretation of the dream is that there's an element of an innocent small child in every person which is what fearless action movies can overlook.
There's an article in The Guardian this morning about how spiders may have REM sleep. Given this is the case, could spiders interpret their dreams in the absence of symbolic language?

To respond to your question, Michael; everyone has a degree of fearfulness otherwise they would perish. However if fearfulness and prudence were too dominant in response to a challenging event then the person would lose valuable opportunities for advancement.

BTW the top floor of a building is traditionally a symbol for mind, so your dream may have expressed your idea that you can overcome a troubling problem. On the other hand your dream may have expressed your idea that you fear you can't overcome the problem. You can decide what it meant for you by paying attention to your mood. In the dream, as the demon shrank, did you feel triumphant and happy, or did you feel hopeless and sad, or did you fear the demon could grow big again?

You say "my character". I understand the accepted wisdom is that all persons in dreams are reflections of the dreamer.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

Belindi wrote: August 20th, 2022, 6:24 am In the dream, as the demon shrank, did you feel triumphant and happy, or did you feel hopeless and sad, or did you fear the demon could grow big again?
I was worried that it was a decoy and the real attacker was elsewhere.


Belindi wrote: August 20th, 2022, 6:24 am BTW the top floor of a building is traditionally a symbol for mind, so your dream may have expressed your idea that you can overcome a troubling problem. On the other hand your dream may have expressed your idea that you fear you can't overcome the problem. You can decide what it meant for you by paying attention to your mood.
Thank you. Good observation.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

I dreamt earlier in a non-lucid way that I was at a market stall. I told the seller that I was OK and didn't want anything. Yet I was eating a scone and somehow thought that I had mistakenly took it from his stall because there was another stall that I had bought from nearby. I paid him out of confusion and soon we were organising a tennis game out in the street. People gathered and took photos and so he put up advertisements of where his stall was.
Belindi
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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Michael McMahon wrote: August 24th, 2022, 10:20 am I dreamt earlier in a non-lucid way that I was at a market stall. I told the seller that I was OK and didn't want anything. Yet I was eating a scone and somehow thought that I had mistakenly took it from his stall because there was another stall that I had bought from nearby. I paid him out of confusion and soon we were organising a tennis game out in the street. People gathered and took photos and so he put up advertisements of where his stall was.
Yes? So what? Did you purpose something by relating your dream? Usually people who tell what they dreamed have a purpose for doing do.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

Belindi wrote: August 25th, 2022, 11:45 am [Usually people who tell what they dreamed have a purpose for doing do.
True. A full dream account should probably include an interpretation. By contrast a poem is left unexplained by the poet so as to allow readers to deduce their own interpretations. It's possible to give a bare description of a dream if only to remind readers of the chaotic nature of the dream world. Although I suppose a dream narrative is much more confusing for others to understand. Perhaps I need to write for a general audience rather than just lucid dreamers!

Belindi wrote: August 25th, 2022, 11:45 am Yes? So what? Did you purpose something by relating your dream?
I've been abroad for a long time and I often pass by enthusiastic market sellers. Perhaps the last dream parodied some of my encounters. One time I'd to pay for my items at a different market stall because the first one didn't have the credit card machine. Yet their collegues in the second stall were also hopeful that I'd buy something in their shop! So I paid them a small bit more for purchases at both stalls much like the confusion over my scone in the dream. One of my tactics is to say I'm late for a tennis game when I meet someone advertising their store. Perhaps it's a bit of a white lie when the game might not be for an hour or so. In the dream I must have been caught out when the owner proposed that we play tennis together!
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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Michael McMahon wrote: August 25th, 2022, 5:55 pm
Belindi wrote: August 25th, 2022, 11:45 am [Usually people who tell what they dreamed have a purpose for doing do.
True. A full dream account should probably include an interpretation. By contrast a poem is left unexplained by the poet so as to allow readers to deduce their own interpretations. It's possible to give a bare description of a dream if only to remind readers of the chaotic nature of the dream world. Although I suppose a dream narrative is much more confusing for others to understand. Perhaps I need to write for a general audience rather than just lucid dreamers!

Belindi wrote: August 25th, 2022, 11:45 am Yes? So what? Did you purpose something by relating your dream?
I've been abroad for a long time and I often pass by enthusiastic market sellers. Perhaps the last dream parodied some of my encounters. One time I'd to pay for my items at a different market stall because the first one didn't have the credit card machine. Yet their collegues in the second stall were also hopeful that I'd buy something in their shop! So I paid them a small bit more for purchases at both stalls much like the confusion over my scone in the dream. One of my tactics is to say I'm late for a tennis game when I meet someone advertising their store. Perhaps it's a bit of a white lie when the game might not be for an hour or so. In the dream I must have been caught out when the owner proposed that we play tennis together!
So you purposed to interpret your dream. Like you said, poems stand to be interpreted. Interpretations are interesting as we may learn from others' interpretations how they are feeling, and what they believe. Dream interpretation groups are usually companionable and discursive. Individuals may be able to usefully introspect, and understand what makes their companions tick.

This is psychology , not philosophy, unless you make some connection with philosophy. Exchanging dream interpretations (or interpretations of a work of art such as poem or a painting) may also reveal social norms if two or more participators share the same cultural symbols.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

Belindi wrote: August 26th, 2022, 8:23 am This is psychology , not philosophy, unless you make some connection with philosophy.
A dream is open to interpretation during the dream itself. For example before I awoke today I was at an interview for a course that I did years ago. Yet instead of thinking that I was re-experiencing my first visit I concluded that I must be repeating the interview for the second time. That's where subjectivity and ambiguity comes into play because it wasn't obvious from the contents of the dream. The examiners through someone's pencil case or something in the air and it hit me in the head. I didn't accept it as an accident and stormed off. I thought that they were ungrateful for attempting to redo the interview for the second year. Perhaps the dream was a cautionary tale about gambling on a different outcome should I retry failed pursuits.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

"The examiners through..." (threw)
"...ungrateful for attempting..." (my attempt to redo)
Belindi
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

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Michael McMahon wrote: August 26th, 2022, 1:24 pm
Belindi wrote: August 26th, 2022, 8:23 am This is psychology , not philosophy, unless you make some connection with philosophy.
A dream is open to interpretation during the dream itself. For example before I awoke today I was at an interview for a course that I did years ago. Yet instead of thinking that I was re-experiencing my first visit I concluded that I must be repeating the interview for the second time. That's where subjectivity and ambiguity comes into play because it wasn't obvious from the contents of the dream. The examiners through someone's pencil case or something in the air and it hit me in the head. I didn't accept it as an accident and stormed off. I thought that they were ungrateful for attempting to redo the interview for the second year. Perhaps the dream was a cautionary tale about gambling on a different outcome should I retry failed pursuits.
I note you usually come here to the forum to tell your dreams. Do you care whether or not others to respond to these narratives?
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

Belindi wrote: August 26th, 2022, 2:25 pm I note you usually come here to the forum to tell your dreams. Do you care whether or not others to respond to these narratives?
Well I'm not able to tell other people's dreams for them! When I think of dream disorders I tend to think the hallucinatory symptoms of schizophrenia show the most overlap. Yet could there be an inverse in autism where a lack of dreaming somehow impairs their ability to empathise with other minds? Dreaming in one sense is a form of transcending our own mind into the unconscious realm. So it stands to reason that an inability to do so might limit their ability to transcend themselves to connect other minds. I don't really know but there have been a few supportive studies on the matter:

"Questionnaires revealed that participants with ASD, compared to controls, had fewer recollections of dreaming, fewer bad dreams and fewer emotions. In the sleep laboratory, dream content narratives following REM sleep awakenings were shorter in ASD participants than in controls. ASD participants also reported fewer settings, objects, characters, social interactions, activities, and emotions."
Dream Content Analysis in Persons with an Autism Spectrum Disorder - Springer
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

"Researchers have reported that dreams in patients with schizophrenia tend to be simpler and less elaborate (2, 8), less emotionally sophisticated and self-involved (2, 9), more bizarre (10–12), and more negative, violent, and unfriendly (9, 11, 13) compared to dreams of healthy individuals."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 95964/#:~:

It seems contradictory that schizophrenic patients have both simpler dreams and more bizarre dreams than the average person. Perhaps their actual dreams are more bizarre but they're interpreting them in a more straightforward way where their recall is less elaborate. In other words they're overwhelmed by the complexity of their dreams. I'll caveat this by saying I'm not a mental health expert.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

Where schizophrenic patients might transcend their knowledge of the physical world, autistic patients might have their visual perception of the outside world to be immanent within it.

Transcendent: "beyond or above the range of normal or physical human experience."
Immanent: "existing or operating within; inherent."
Belindi
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Belindi »

Michael wrote
Well I'm not able to tell other people's dreams for them!
You or I can interpret others' poems or paintings.
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

Belindi wrote: August 27th, 2022, 3:57 am You or I can interpret others' poems or paintings.
True. People are free to analyse their own dreams either in this thread or a thread of their own. Perhaps you'd need to take "gap years" like myself to turn vivid dreams into lucid dreams.

Escape deterministic confinement Free Will-y!
Screenshot_20220827-112138_Chrome.jpg
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Re: Is Dreaming an Encryption Procedure?

Post by Michael McMahon »

My sleep was interrupted by a lucid dream. I was in a lift with others and felt really disoriented. I attributed this to feeling extremely exhausted and needing to go to bed instead of thinking that it was a only a dream. I began to panic about how tired I was feeling which is a really unusual sensation. It was almost like I could collapse if I could't get to my bed quickly enough in the dream. In the next few moments I was teleported elsewhere so to speak and was passing by a group of people on a road at night. One of them asked me if I wanted drugs. I felt that it was a trap and I started to sprint. This made me become lucid because I realised that I was running faster than I could in real life.
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