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Whatever Consciousness is, it's Not Physical (or reducible to physical).

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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Chili
Posts: 372
Joined: September 29th, 2017, 4:59 pm

Re: Whatever Consciousness is, it's Not Physical (or reducible to physical).

Post by Chili » February 10th, 2019, 9:20 pm

The robot is the sum of its blind deterministic parts. It is mere sloppiness to say that is "aware" in the sense of having a subjective experience.

Jan Sand
Posts: 573
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: Whatever Consciousness is, it's Not Physical (or reducible to physical).

Post by Jan Sand » February 10th, 2019, 9:28 pm

I find it continuously amusing that some people presume they somehow are privileged to not obey the established laws that everything else in the universe must follow. It's not worth any effort to attempt to convince them otherwise.

Chili
Posts: 372
Joined: September 29th, 2017, 4:59 pm

Re: Whatever Consciousness is, it's Not Physical (or reducible to physical).

Post by Chili » February 10th, 2019, 11:15 pm

This "presumption" - do they *choose* it or is it unavoidable ? Are they conscious? Are they agents? How do you know ?

Jan Sand
Posts: 573
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: Whatever Consciousness is, it's Not Physical (or reducible to physical).

Post by Jan Sand » February 10th, 2019, 11:45 pm

On the average the people, dogs, cats, crows and various other animals I encounter behave as if they are conscious. The average oyster and pine tree, and a few others may be conscious but conversations here are rather difficult to evoke intelligible response. Onions respond to extreme cruelty by making me cry in contravention to the potatoes I peel who respond rather feebly if at all. Somewhat like apples.

Jan Sand
Posts: 573
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: Whatever Consciousness is, it's Not Physical (or reducible to physical).

Post by Jan Sand » February 11th, 2019, 12:09 am

To get more to the point, although many living creatures are presumed to be merely automatic with no consciousness in the degree attributed to people, the mechanics of consciousness are quite useful in operating for sustainment and reproduction in the world and since the brain must formulate a useful sense of reality out of simple sensory input, it has little other means to make sense of existence. Even humans can only model a simplified model of reality within which they create a representation of themselves which they call consciousness. Evolution requires only the basics of this system for successful living but that is quite enough, An article at https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 142234.htm indicates that even fish display consciousness so it is unlikely to be rare

Chili
Posts: 372
Joined: September 29th, 2017, 4:59 pm

Re: Whatever Consciousness is, it's Not Physical (or reducible to physical).

Post by Chili » February 11th, 2019, 11:14 am

You don't know what they believe, only how they behave. It is a small step to stop saying "humans can model" to "humans do model" to the parts of humans fall like dominoes or stones in an avalanche to create the behavior or modeling. Sponges respond to extreme cruelty by dripping water when you give them a kick. Are you contemplating the issue of reductionism ?

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