Quite easily, and mostly because you are correct that the two are a subset of one to the other. Experience is a combination of numerous perceptions plus a meta analysis of the group of perceptions. A single perception is just that (a subset). Thus it is true by definition that a subset is less than the superset. Hence why you don't believe the assistant is sawn in half and you are right. Numerous perceptions plus analysis >>> a single perception.RJG wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 7:56 amHow can one trump the other when these words are essentially interchangeable? (...both the noun and verb variations).LuckyR wrote:So when you see a pretty assistant sawn in half in a box on stage, you think she is really sawn in half?
No. Experience trumps perception.
Don't we experience perceptions? -- or do we experience experiences? Do we perceive experiences? -- or do we perceive perceptions?
So what makes one trump the other? Aren't they the same, but with different names?
And if these words are not the same, then let me re-ask the topic question -- Can we trust our 'experiences' to tell us what's real?
Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
- Mark1955
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
Not at the moment when I start to pull the brake lever, at that point the breakage is an unknown unknown. [alright I might have foreseen it bus I as only 11 at the time.Eduk wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 10:32 amWhat an odd example. It strikes me that your example is one where cause and effect is 100% consistent.Except one day the cable snaps and the bike doesn't stop. Accidents are nature's way of reminding us that cause and effect is not always as consistent as we'd like it to be.
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
Well the grandson of the current British monarch recently got married in a rather large building dedicated to religious observance. His nan is considered by a quite a few people in this country to be head of the Church of England an organisation that expects about a million active participants a week. The Education Act 1944 still directs that every school will hold an act of broadly Christian worship every day. This doesn't happen much but no one is willing to try and remove the rule. There's not as many of them as there used to be but they're not exactly extinct.
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
These, your claims, actually do not contradict my claims. What you cited are a bunch of true (?) claims, but they don't deny my claim by any force of argument.Mark1955 wrote: ↑June 20th, 2018, 5:01 pmWell the grandson of the current British monarch recently got married in a rather large building dedicated to religious observance. His nan is considered by a quite a few people in this country to be head of the Church of England an organisation that expects about a million active participants a week. The Education Act 1944 still directs that every school will hold an act of broadly Christian worship every day. This doesn't happen much but no one is willing to try and remove the rule. There's not as many of them as there used to be but they're not exactly extinct.
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
If you expect that your not being aware of the causes is the same as the causes' not existing, then and only then you are right.Except one day the cable snaps and the bike doesn't stop. Accidents are nature's way of reminding us that cause and effect is not always as consistent as we'd like it to be.
It's an absurd expectation. Why do you do it?
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
Knowledge is merely our reflection of Reality, a mirror image of Reality, the mind being our Mystic Mirror.
A mirror must be highly polished to the point of perfection in order to reflect a True Image of Reality without distortion.
All blemishes in you Mystic Mirror are no different, are the same as a reflection of the truth and be reflected, projected back into the World of Reality.
Intelligence allows one to discern the difference between the Image of Reality and the Illusion of Reality.
An Illusion of Reality is a Reality, in fact, an Illusion must be mistaken to be a Reality in order to even exist.
This misconception of the Truth is called Sin, to miss the mark.
The less intelligent a person is the more guileful they are.
One does not have to know when they are lying.
A person that is not wise, lacking intelligence is a precipitous Liar.
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
We all do it. This was simple example but the reality is that right now we all have unknown unknowns impacting our lives and they may be why the thing we expect to happen next doesn't.-1- wrote: ↑June 20th, 2018, 11:27 pmIf you expect that your not being aware of the causes is the same as the causes' not existing, then and only then you are right.Except one day the cable snaps and the bike doesn't stop. Accidents are nature's way of reminding us that cause and effect is not always as consistent as we'd like it to be.
It's an absurd expectation. Why do you do it?
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
We learn by observing cause and effect, we perceive that if A happens B follows and this becomes 'the truth'. Our perception of A is always incomplete, therefore we cannot truly know if A has happened or a variation of A has happened. The result of the variation of A is C. Try and get away from 'well you weren't very clever not to check your brake cable for wear' and look at the simple principle; cause - pull brake lever = effect - bike slows down; right up to he moment when you introduce the unknown, how near to breaking is the cable. Cause and effect may be theoretically 100% consistent but our knowledge of them is not therefore our practical use of the principle is always riddled with uncertainty.Eduk wrote: ↑June 20th, 2018, 6:04 pm Mark I'm possibly just not taking your comment in the spirit it was intended. If you mean unforseen things happen then I agree with you. But cause and effect requires no knowledge of the causes or the effects to be 100% consistent. So maybe I just have issue with the term cause and effect.
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
Seems to me a better example would be.
I am riding my bike. I apply the brakes. The brake cable snaps. The brake pads are not applied to the wheel. The wheel is not slowed. The bike stops.
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
You are fatally mixing up two concepts. Either you don't understand one of them, or else you just fake not understanding in order to carry on your point.
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
Yes, this is a superior example to exemplify the point. Human knowledge here does not play any roles, and the absurdity of this example shows the failure of Mark's point.Eduk wrote: ↑June 24th, 2018, 3:34 am Ok well speaking personally I do expect my brake to work. But I don't claim absolute knowledge and I do recognise that brake cables sometimes fail.
Seems to me a better example would be.
I am riding my bike. I apply the brakes. The brake cable snaps. The brake pads are not applied to the wheel. The wheel is not slowed. The bike stops.
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
- ogbaby_d
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Re: Can we trust our perceptions to tell us what's real?
I think yes, but your mind would not allow you to trust it for certain because you haven't explored whats outside of the porthole, although you are able to perceive through it.
In other words, you would think or believe it not to be real , thus it will not occur to you to be real, but for certain, it is real.
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