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Circular Time

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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h_k_s
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Re: Circular Time

Post by h_k_s » December 28th, 2018, 11:10 am

LuckyR wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 3:17 am
h_k_s wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 9:37 pm


Time travel.

Yet another oxymoron.
Huh? Time travel happens not infrequently, if not routinely.
All depends on the dope you are using at the time, yes.

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LuckyR
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Re: Circular Time

Post by LuckyR » December 28th, 2018, 3:13 pm

h_k_s wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 11:10 am
LuckyR wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 3:17 am


Huh? Time travel happens not infrequently, if not routinely.
All depends on the dope you are using at the time, yes.
No, I am referring to actual time travel into the future, typically by astronauts on the ISS. No dope required.
"As usual... it depends."

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h_k_s
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Re: Circular Time

Post by h_k_s » December 28th, 2018, 6:42 pm

LuckyR wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 3:13 pm
h_k_s wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 11:10 am


All depends on the dope you are using at the time, yes.
No, I am referring to actual time travel into the future, typically by astronauts on the ISS. No dope required.
Funny haha.

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h_k_s
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Re: Circular Time

Post by h_k_s » December 28th, 2018, 6:43 pm

There needs to be a philosophy section for science fiction.

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LuckyR
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Re: Circular Time

Post by LuckyR » December 29th, 2018, 4:04 am

h_k_s wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 6:42 pm
LuckyR wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 3:13 pm


No, I am referring to actual time travel into the future, typically by astronauts on the ISS. No dope required.
Funny haha.
Don't mock what you don't understand.

Astronaut Mark Kelly traveling 5 milliseconds into the future during his year in the International Space Station is the most media forward example because he is American and happens to be an identical twin. Relatively common knowledge.
"As usual... it depends."

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Mark1955
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Mark1955 » December 29th, 2018, 7:34 am

h_k_s wrote:
December 25th, 2018, 10:57 am
devans99 wrote:
December 24th, 2018, 11:32 am


The past did exist
There is no such thing as the past. It is only a function of the human mind. Same as math.
On that basis there's no such thing as now, it's just a function of the human mind.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

Belindi
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Belindi » December 29th, 2018, 7:56 am

devans99 wrote: ↑December 24th, 2018, 11:32 am

The past did exist
Did the past exist in the sense of what a thoroughly scientific and well balanced left wing or right wing historian would tell; that's to say "exist" as objectively as possible?

Unless you and I have lost our separate memories there's no doubt that the past existed for you and for I; that's to say the past "exists" subjectively.

Wayne92587
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Wayne92587 » December 29th, 2018, 4:42 pm

It is the nature or Time that is in question, not the existence of Time. There could be no order to time if it were not circular.
In order to avoid the uncertainty of the existence of all Entities in space said entities must be measurable as to location and momentum in Space-Time. The motion of all entities, to include Time and Light Time in order to exist must be complete, be fully realized as the whole of a singular Reality.
The Motion in all entities in Space-Time, to include Time, Space and Light existing as individual entities is Geodesic, circular, in Nature.

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h_k_s
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Re: Circular Time

Post by h_k_s » December 29th, 2018, 9:30 pm

Mark1955 wrote:
December 29th, 2018, 7:34 am
h_k_s wrote:
December 25th, 2018, 10:57 am


There is no such thing as the past. It is only a function of the human mind. Same as math.
On that basis there's no such thing as now, it's just a function of the human mind.
Do you have any arguments (logical ones) that can support your conclusion ??

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h_k_s
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Re: Circular Time

Post by h_k_s » December 29th, 2018, 9:33 pm

LuckyR wrote:
December 29th, 2018, 4:04 am
h_k_s wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 6:42 pm


Funny haha.
Don't mock what you don't understand.

Astronaut Mark Kelly traveling 5 milliseconds into the future during his year in the International Space Station is the most media forward example because he is American and happens to be an identical twin. Relatively common knowledge.
You can/must start your own philosophy of science fiction with some kind of general principle.

For math the principles are all definitions.

For science fiction you need to choose something or create some rule that would govern it.

What would you propose ??

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LuckyR
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Re: Circular Time

Post by LuckyR » December 30th, 2018, 2:51 am

h_k_s wrote:
December 29th, 2018, 9:33 pm
LuckyR wrote:
December 29th, 2018, 4:04 am


Don't mock what you don't understand.

Astronaut Mark Kelly traveling 5 milliseconds into the future during his year in the International Space Station is the most media forward example because he is American and happens to be an identical twin. Relatively common knowledge.
You can/must start your own philosophy of science fiction with some kind of general principle.

For math the principles are all definitions.

For science fiction you need to choose something or create some rule that would govern it.

What would you propose ??
It doesn't matter what I propose. Physics has already "proposed" Einstein's theory of Special Relativity.
"As usual... it depends."

Atla
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Atla » December 30th, 2018, 3:05 am

LuckyR wrote:
December 29th, 2018, 4:04 am
Astronaut Mark Kelly traveling 5 milliseconds into the future during his year in the International Space Station is the most media forward example because he is American and happens to be an identical twin. Relatively common knowledge.
It's also common knowledge that relativity of time and time travel are two different things.

Atla
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Atla » December 30th, 2018, 5:52 am

Maybe it's best to just give an example, what it might be like to "travel" through a circular spacetime, and arrive exactly where and when we started. Here is a simple scenario:

-------

I pick a straight "direction" in spacetime, decide to never deviate from it, start my journey, always go in that "direction".
Eventually I die, my body falls apart, eventually all that stuff falls into black holes.
Meanwhile, the expansion rate of the observable universe changes for a 4th or so time, the expansion reverses.
Black holes keep colliding, eventually there is only one matter and one anti-matter black hole left, their collision is both the Big Crunch and the instantly following Big Bang.
Then the universe evolves for 13.8 billion years and then I'm born, having no memory of the loop, eventually I decide to take the above trip.

-------

It's important to note that the "ending" isn't in an identical universe, all the above happens in the same universe. Solving several fundamental problems at once: what's the Big Bang; what caused it; how the infinite regress problem about time can be dismissed when time has no start; how spacetime and the eternal present can apply at the same time.

Of course circular time is just a highly speculative hypothesis too, but it seems to me like a damn good one, solves all logical problems. Ancients texts talking about the "Beginning"/"End" or the eternal cycles, which are all linear time, may have influenced us too much.

The catch is that circular time can only be true if the expansion of the observable universe eventually reverses. If it hasn't already, then such a reversal will probably not happen while humans are around.

That's my basic view about circular time, and then it can come in different variations too. For example the idea that there is a finite chain of universes that form a closed loop, for example 6 cycles with 6 Big Crunches and Big Bangs.

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Mark1955
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Mark1955 » December 30th, 2018, 10:44 am

h_k_s wrote:
December 29th, 2018, 9:30 pm
Mark1955 wrote:
December 29th, 2018, 7:34 am

On that basis there's no such thing as now, it's just a function of the human mind.
Do you have any arguments (logical ones) that can support your conclusion ??
The same one you use to support your conclusion there's no such thing as the past because it's just a function of the human mind.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

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h_k_s
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Re: Circular Time

Post by h_k_s » December 30th, 2018, 1:20 pm

Mark1955 wrote:
December 30th, 2018, 10:44 am
h_k_s wrote:
December 29th, 2018, 9:30 pm


Do you have any arguments (logical ones) that can support your conclusion ??
The same one you use to support your conclusion there's no such thing as the past because it's just a function of the human mind.
Your fallacy is argument from ignorance then. You don't know either way. But there is no evidence to support your view.

My view is the default view -- that if there is no evidence for something then it does not exist.

You have also tried to shift the burden and move the goal posts. Bad dog.

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