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Circular Time

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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Mark1955
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Mark1955 » January 1st, 2019, 6:04 am

h_k_s wrote:
December 31st, 2018, 5:49 pm
Under Modern Empiricism (I hope you have studied what that means) you must utilize your senses to observe before you can state that something outside of yourself exists.
So, since you're keen on titles, let's call this post modern empiricism; the idea that you know your sense are imperfect and that things might exist you cannot sense. Then all your certainties fall away.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

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h_k_s
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Re: Circular Time

Post by h_k_s » January 1st, 2019, 11:20 am

Mark1955 wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 6:04 am
h_k_s wrote:
December 31st, 2018, 5:49 pm
Under Modern Empiricism (I hope you have studied what that means) you must utilize your senses to observe before you can state that something outside of yourself exists.
So, since you're keen on titles, let's call this post modern empiricism; the idea that you know your sense are imperfect and that things might exist you cannot sense. Then all your certainties fall away.
This is rehashed Skepticism. Nothing new under the sun about that.

Descartes forever exorcized Skepticism. It is dead and cold.

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h_k_s
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Re: Circular Time

Post by h_k_s » January 1st, 2019, 11:21 am

LuckyR wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 4:55 am
h_k_s wrote:
December 31st, 2018, 10:17 am

This is a philosophy forum. Not physics.
You clearly have demonstrated a firm grasp of the obvious. I would encourage you to broaden your scope, especially if you are going to try to deny the proven.
I would still like to see you formulate a philosophy for science fiction, since science fiction is clearly your favorite subject.

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LuckyR
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Re: Circular Time

Post by LuckyR » January 2nd, 2019, 2:49 am

Atla wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 5:38 am
LuckyR wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 4:58 am


What would you call traveling into the future?
Time travel is about skipping time, those astronauts don't do that.
A perfectly reasonable personal definition, though not universally accepted. You gave no details, which makes it difficult to comment accurately, but if your idea of time travel resembles popular movies, you are correct, reality is very different from that, though your scenario suffers from being somewhere between never been observed to impossible.

In any case the astronaut situation is identical to skipping time when observed after the fact.
"As usual... it depends."

Atla
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Atla » January 2nd, 2019, 4:37 pm

LuckyR wrote:
January 2nd, 2019, 2:49 am
A perfectly reasonable personal definition, though not universally accepted. You gave no details, which makes it difficult to comment accurately, but if your idea of time travel resembles popular movies, you are correct, reality is very different from that, though your scenario suffers from being somewhere between never been observed to impossible.

In any case the astronaut situation is identical to skipping time when observed after the fact.
I think it's more accepted than your definition, which is why many scientists debate whether or not time travel is possible at all.

Okay I guess we can call the end result time travel, but then couldn't the astronauts also say that everyone back on Earth traveled into the past? From my head's perspective, are my feet traveling into the past right now?

Wayne92587
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Wayne92587 » January 5th, 2019, 3:51 pm

What would you call traveling into the future?
Science Fiction.

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Re: Circular Time

Post by Wayne92587 » January 5th, 2019, 3:58 pm

Actually, the Reality of the Moment encompasses the past, the present and the future while the only moment in time that the individual is able to occupy is the Reality of the Here and Now; Now is the Time.

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Re: Circular Time

Post by Wayne92587 » January 5th, 2019, 4:00 pm

are my feet traveling into the past right now?
Yes.

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Mark1955
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Mark1955 » January 7th, 2019, 12:26 pm

Wayne92587 wrote:
January 5th, 2019, 3:51 pm
What would you call traveling into the future?
Science Fiction.
Life?
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

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Felix
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Felix » January 10th, 2019, 12:34 pm

devans9: Note that all the following alternative solutions are ruled out by axiom 2 (= cause and effect apply)

- An 'uncaused cause' caused the universe
- An infinite regress of time/events caused the universe
- Something from nothing caused the universe
Axiom #2 is an assumption, there is no reason to believe that causality even applies throughout the known universe, e.g., within a black hole.

Furthermore, if the universe is eternal, i.e., had no temporal beginning, then by definition it transcends time and the notion of circular time becomes irrelevant.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin

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Re: Circular Time

Post by devans99 » January 11th, 2019, 9:15 am

Felix wrote:
January 10th, 2019, 12:34 pm
devans9: Note that all the following alternative solutions are ruled out by axiom 2 (= cause and effect apply)

- An 'uncaused cause' caused the universe
- An infinite regress of time/events caused the universe
- Something from nothing caused the universe
Axiom #2 is an assumption, there is no reason to believe that causality even applies throughout the known universe, e.g., within a black hole.

Furthermore, if the universe is eternal, i.e., had no temporal beginning, then by definition it transcends time and the notion of circular time becomes irrelevant.
Correct Axiom #2 is an assumption, that's why I called it an axiom. But cause and effect is a good axiom. How else does the universe get things done if it is not cause and effect at some level via some mechanisms. I bet we find out that it holds even at quantum level and in black holes.

An eternal (inside of time) universe is impossible by the axiom of cause and effect. There would be an infinite regress of events into the past:

1. The number of events in an infinite regress is > any number
2. Thats a contradiction (can’t be both a number and > any number)
3. Making up magic numbers is not allowed (can break any theory if magic is admissible)
4. An infinite regress is impossible.
5. An eternal (inside of time) universe is impossible

Wayne92587
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Wayne92587 » January 11th, 2019, 2:35 pm

Because the nature of change, time is such that nothing exists long enough to complete the circle.

The Motion of Time in Space like the motion of Light, due to the nature of motion, the measurable location and momentum of an object in Space-Time, having angular momentum, velocity of speed and direction, the motion of Light and Time are geodesic in nature.

Light travels in a circular motion, even though it never completes the Circle.

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Felix
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Felix » January 11th, 2019, 3:07 pm

eternal = lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning. Thus it would transcend time, and cause and effect too, if you believe these qualities are dependant on one another - they don't need to be.
"How else does the universe get things done if it is not cause and effect at some level via some mechanisms."
First off, no self respecting universe concerns itself with "getting things done." More importantly, in an eternal universe there is room for both serial and nonserial processes - especially if it is infinite - as Wayne alluded to.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin

Wayne92587
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Wayne92587 » January 12th, 2019, 2:24 pm

Thank you for your response Felix.

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Machapungo
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Re: Circular Time

Post by Machapungo » January 12th, 2019, 2:54 pm

If the Universe is all energy and if energy cannot be destroyed, only transformed, then the universe is the one and only eternal thing.
If the Universe is eternal then it does not require a cause because it is the cause of every thing that happens within it. Motion happens. Time only happens within the minds of those that try to understand motion and is not energy in any form but is an idea that depends on energy as does everything.

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