Does determinism really pose a problem for free will?
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Re: Does determinism really pose a problem for free will?
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Re: Does determinism really pose a problem for free will?
That's exactly correct. The possibility of absolute Free Will dispensed with we can discover that man's freedom of choice has not disappeared entirely but that his freedom of choice varies according to the level of reason that's brought to bear upon any choice or decision. This sort of freedom can be empirically examined as liberal education systems are founded upon increasing the learner's freedom by increasing his use of reason. We can assess our own acts by introspecting about whether we have impulsively reacted to circumstances or reflected before acting. A politician who has knowledge and reason at her command will be more successful than one who has temper tantrums.Well you do understand that many, if not most deteriminists do not believe in voluntary action. I suppose we are free to create our own definitions, but by your definition of free will, it does not acknowledge voluntary action as evidence of free will, it will not allow influencers of decision making (<100% causation), so you leave us with a hollow, unrealistic shell of what free will could be, that essentially no one I know could subscribe to. You win. Big deal.
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Re: Does determinism really pose a problem for free will?
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Re: Does determinism really pose a problem for free will?
One possibility has occurred to me. If time is not one dimensional, but at least two dimensional where the fourth and a fifth dimension form a plane, then there can be a multitude of time lines on that plane so that the illusion of making a decision can appear as a reality to slip into a different time line much as a train can switch to a different track. I cannot see how that can be observed.
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Re: Does determinism really pose a problem for free will?
But freedom is human , it's not an eternal verity. As human, freedom is a relative quality which relates to degrees , or levels, of freedom.Jan Sand wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 7:06 am That last comment of mine sems to require a small extension. It indicates that time as a fourth dimension out of Einsteinian theory is continuous and the instant in the fourth dimension that we all acknowledge as now is an illusion, as there is no such static point in actuality. A decision is a concept of a momentary stasis where an aware mind can make a choice as to what proceeds from that point onwards, but process provides no momentary stasis in actuality. It is continuous and by that continuouity a decision to act in a particular way must merely be an element in that continuity. Just as the now that we all acknowledge is an illusion, the nature of a free decision is an illusion and if the time dimension is accepted as continuous then the illusion of making decisions is merely part of that illusion.
One possibility has occurred to me. If time is not one dimensional, but at least two dimensional where the fourth and a fifth dimension form a plane, then there can be a multitude of time lines on that plane so that the illusion of making a decision can appear as a reality to slip into a different time line much as a train can switch to a different track. I cannot see how that can be observed.
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Re: Does determinism really pose a problem for free will?
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Re: Does determinism really pose a problem for free will?
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Re: Does determinism really pose a problem for free will?
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Re: Does determinism really pose a problem for free will?
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Re: Does determinism really pose a problem for free will?
Jellyfish and even intelligent parrots lack the freedom to destroy life on Earth.Jan Sand wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 9:40 am Aside from the obvious fact that no one has the slightest concept as to what other animals might discuss, not even the average jellyfish has made the slightest attempt to destroy much of life on this planet, including their own. That consists of such a monumental stupidity that not even the dumbest paramecium would consider it worthwhile. Humans seem to have attained that honor.
Jan, most people use 'discuss' with the implication that human language is the medium for communication.
You are of course right that as a species we are stupid and evil beyond even the dinosaurs. No other species has had the knowledge that it is destroying its entire habitat.
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Re: Does determinism really pose a problem for free will?
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Re: Does determinism really pose a problem for free will?
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Re: Does determinism really pose a problem for free will?
Cyanobacteria did a fine job of it over 3 billion years ago, and it didn't take free will to do it. It just took a species that failed to give a crap about its own consequences.
The Holocene extinction event is much like that early extinction event, except it remains to be seen if the species causing it will survive the destruction it wreaks.
I think we're smarter than the dinosaurs, who would similarly destroy their own habitat if they only knew how.You are of course right that as a species we are stupid and evil beyond even the dinosaurs. No other species has had the knowledge that it is destroying its entire habitat.
I imagine there could be creatures that actively refrain from doing this, but humans are not among them.
Why is any of this relevant to a discussion on free will?
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