But there is no “before” existence if time does not yet exist.”devans99” wrote:I claimed that an eternal, timeless 'now' exists causally 'before' our time…
If “before” does not yet exist, then there can be no “prior” cause to cause anything; hence no causation.”Devans99” wrote:How does timeless state cause the creation of time? You have to think about timelessness as one eternal now - everything happens at the same time - yet there can still be causal relationships. So the first cause could cause time to start.
“No start” does not equate to “non-existence”. There is no (sound) logic that refutes an infinite existence!”devans99” wrote:But an infinite regress has no start so none of it can exist.
But again, there is NO “first element” (or beginning point) in “always existing”.”devans99” wrote:Would the black ball go in if the cue did not hit the white? No - we remove the first element in a time ordered regress and find that the rest of the regress disappears. So the first element (in time order) is key - it defines the whole of the rest of a regress.
Not so. It only seems impossible, because we have been indoctrinated to believe such.”devans99” wrote:…temporal/casual infinite regresses are impossible.
”RJG” wrote:If something has "always existed" then there is no beginning (...nor is there any logical contradiction of an "uncaused first cause"). There is no "first cause" in an "always existing" causal universe. ...a tough concept to grasp, but it is the only one that doesn't logically contradict itself.
But this “induction” leaves you with a deductive logical contradiction (an uncaused first cause). So then, what is your preference, do you wish to believe in a logical impossibility (a non-caused causation) or a non-palatable logical possibility (an infinite universe)?”devans99” wrote:If there is no first cause, there is no second cause, no second cause, then no third cause. By induction there is nothing in the universe without a first cause.
I'll take the (unpalatable) possibility over an impossibility, any day of the week!
An infinite causal chain is not a logical impossibility, it is only a concept that is difficult to grasp due to our pre-conditioned beliefs. Again, there is no logic that refutes it, or that of an infinite existence. There is only the irrational 'disbelief' of such a notion.”Tamminen” wrote:An infinite causal chain of events from past to present is logically problematic for reasons you mentioned.
Time is a ‘dimension’ within an infinitely existing universe.”Tamminen” wrote:Time is an internal property of being in general, its key structure. Therefore we have various possibilities to think of its being finite or infinite.