Materialism is absurd

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
User avatar
psyreporter
Posts: 1022
Joined: August 15th, 2019, 7:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by psyreporter »

Tamminen wrote: May 20th, 2019, 9:25 amMaterialism is absurd

I am still trying to figure out how the following is possible:
Terrapin Station wrote: March 19th, 2020, 9:37 amI'm an atheist.
Terrapin Station wrote: March 5th, 2020, 4:30 pmSo I'm a physicalist. I'm convinced that the mind is simply brain processes.

I don't at all buy determinism.
psyreporter wrote: November 28th, 2021, 2:18 am
  1. Do you believe in intrinsic existence without mind?
  2. Do you believe that mind has a cause within the scope of physical reality?
Yes and yes. I'm a realist and a physicalist (aka "materialist").

A quote by free will sceptics indicates that it is impossible to escape determinism in a purely physical (materialistic) world.
Free Will Sceptics wrote: December 6th, 2021, 10:44 am To make a choice that wasn’t merely the next link in the unbroken chain of causes, you’d have to be able to stand apart from the whole thing, a ghostly presence separate from the material world yet mysteriously still able to influence it. But of course you can’t actually get to this supposed place that’s external to the universe, separate from all the atoms that comprise it and the laws that govern them. Your conscious 'I' is just some of the atoms in the universe, governed by the same predictable laws as all the rest.

(2021) The clockwork universe: is free will an illusion?
A growing chorus of scientists and philosophers argue that free will does not exist. Why would they do so?
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/a ... n-illusion

I didn't get any further than the following:
Terrapin Station wrote: December 10th, 2021, 9:18 am
psyreporter wrote: December 9th, 2021, 10:57 am You are dodging a simple question: how are you able to maintain a belief in free will as being a materialist?

The cited quote by free will sceptics indicates that it is impossible to escape determinism in a purely physical world.
lol - what a jackass.
PsyReporter.com | “If life were to be good as it was, there would be no reason to exist.”
User avatar
3017Metaphysician
Posts: 1621
Joined: July 9th, 2021, 8:59 am

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

Tamminen wrote: May 20th, 2019, 9:25 am Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
Materialism: a theory that physical matter is the only or fundamental reality and that all being and processes and phenomena can be explained as manifestations or results of matter
“Everything is matter.” Who says so? I, the subject. And if there were no subject who says so, there would be no one for whom matter matters, and therefore there would be no sense in saying that there is anything at all, because being and its meaning are not separable from each other. Nothingness of meaning means nothingness of being. So there is at least (1) the subject's (2) consciousness of (3) matter, instead of matter only. All three components are necessary to make a satisfactory ontological picture of reality.

That I, as the subject, could be somehow reducible to my objects, or that my consciousness of matter could be somehow reducible to what I am conscious of, is absurd.

Matter matters to me, but nothing matters to matter.

So by doing a simple phenomenological analysis of the being of matter we find that materialism is a self-contradictory position.
Tamminen!

Well yes. extreme materialism is absurd and false on many levels relative to the nature of reality/existence. Common sense, of course, tells use that one needs a subject (a thinking self) to observe or apperceive (cognize the experience of) an object or a thing, whether it's an inanimate or animate object. It is always problematic to dichotomize Being as one or the other. For example, this is why pure reason fails to tell us about the nature of reality. Formal logic is not designed as such.

Nonetheless, if we were to use logic to parse the problem, it is simply out of logical necessity that our existence is dependent upon the subject-object dynamic and/or dichotomy. The danger is, force feeding only one, as an exclusive method for experiencing reality, means something is mutually exclusive. Being, on the other hand, is both/and, just like the left brain and right brain are dependent upon one another for cognition to work properly.

As it relates to sentient Being (and consciousness), extreme Materialism is just as absurd as extreme Idealism. We need a medium of materialism to cause idealism. One needs the other. Kantian antinomies' tells us that that every actual thing involves a coexistence of opposed elements.

Another common sense way, or pragmatic way of looking at this problem is the analogical mathematics' example. Being is not like engineering where if the wrong formula is applied, the design fails. That in itself, is an either/or proposition. To make the object work, there's a right way or a wrong way. But Being, in itself, is both/and. Feeling/logic; animate/inanimate matter, Will/intellect, physical/metaphysical, right brain/left-brain, ad nauseum.

Unfortunately, it is the human condition (existential finitude) that causes this need to dichotomize. We all default to it, for some reason. This too, is nothing new under the sun 8)
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
User avatar
psyreporter
Posts: 1022
Joined: August 15th, 2019, 7:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by psyreporter »

Terrapin Station wrote: March 19th, 2020, 9:37 amI'm an atheist.
Terrapin Station wrote: March 5th, 2020, 4:30 pmSo I'm a physicalist. I'm convinced that the mind is simply brain processes.

I don't at all buy determinism.
psyreporter wrote: November 28th, 2021, 2:18 am
  1. Do you believe in intrinsic existence without mind?
  2. Do you believe that mind has a cause within the scope of physical reality?
Yes and yes. I'm a realist and a physicalist (aka "materialist").
Terrapin Station wrote: December 10th, 2021, 9:18 am
psyreporter wrote: December 9th, 2021, 10:57 am You are dodging a simple question: how are you able to maintain a belief in free will as being a materialist?

The cited quote by free will sceptics indicates that it is impossible to escape determinism in a purely physical world.
lol - what a jackass.
Still waiting for an answer...
PsyReporter.com | “If life were to be good as it was, there would be no reason to exist.”
value
Premium Member
Posts: 750
Joined: December 11th, 2019, 9:18 am

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by value »

3017Metaphysician wrote: June 22nd, 2022, 12:07 pmWe need a medium of materialism to cause idealism. One needs the other.
With that you would argue that you need an existent to cause an existent which would be absurd. It would be equal to TP's statement that mind is caused by physical reality which would make you a materialist.
Terrapin Station wrote: March 5th, 2020, 4:30 pm
  1. Do you believe in intrinsic existence without mind?
  2. Do you believe that mind has a cause within the scope of physical reality?
Yes and yes. I'm a realist and a physicalist (aka "materialist").
Idealism is not opposed to materialism in my opinion. Opposition is only possible within the scope of existence. With idealism it is posed that the origin of existence is not of a nature that is an existent.

3017Metaphysician wrote: June 22nd, 2022, 12:07 pmBeing, in itself, is both/and. Feeling/logic; animate/inanimate matter, Will/intellect, physical/metaphysical, right brain/left-brain, ad nauseum.
In my opinion it is simple logic that something of a nature Otherwise than Being must precede Being fundamentally and that that aspect cannot be of the nature of an existent and thus does not cause or be affected by the mentioned problems.

In my opinion the consideration of plausibility of the idea 'meaningful relevance beyond/preceding existence' (beyond from within a subjective perspective, preceding from an outside-philosophical view) is a key to a solution.

The idea: Otherwise than Being is meaningful and not 'nothing vs thing' (an idea only possible from the perspective of existence which makes the idea absurd).

Do you know the work Otherwise than Being by French philosopher Emmanuel Levinas?

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/252 ... nd_Essence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherwise_than_Being

In specific the following might be of interest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_saying_and_the_said

The Two Aspects of Language: The Saying and the Said
Levinas's analyses of “the saying” and “the said” in Otherwise Than Being are an attempt to give an account of how, at once, my ethical relationship with the other — the “singular” other — is the basis of all meaningfulness, and the fact that I do not re-make language each time I encounter a new interlocutor, but participate, even in my responsibility for the other in his or her singularity, in a “universal” system of meanings.
https://academic.oup.com/fordham-schola ... ogin=false
User avatar
3017Metaphysician
Posts: 1621
Joined: July 9th, 2021, 8:59 am

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

value wrote: December 26th, 2022, 12:04 am
3017Metaphysician wrote: June 22nd, 2022, 12:07 pmWe need a medium of materialism to cause idealism. One needs the other.

With that you would argue that you need an existent to cause an existent which would be absurd. It would be equal to TP's statement that mind is caused by physical reality which would make you a materialist.


Value!


The argument is not relevant to 'existents' in the context of material exclusivity. If it were, then Materialism is not necessarily absurd; it becomes nonsensical by itself. TP''s statement is the nonsensical notion that the brain causes consciousness. It's like saying the brain causes the brain. Nonsensical indeed.

The point I'm making is that it's not an either/or proposition. As such, it's a matter of primacy. Or if you prefer, it's an apportioned amount of both the quality and quantity of things, based upon its 'qualitative' function or purpose (Teleology). For example, if an engineer wills to perform calculations to design a structure, his subjective emotive desires take primacy in that action or behavior. His own Will is causing him to perform calculations and produce a designed structure. This would be another way to look at Idealism, as it was the primacy of the mind, its ideas, and our dependency on it that caused us/him to want to design something.

Now, the calculations themselves would be a purely objective result or product of those desires, in-themselves. But since we can't exclusively assign causal values to either/or, we are left with both/and, and the apportionment of same. The concept there is primacy. And primacy changes or vacillates as logically necessary for the mind to perform its purpose or function. This is all part of both the immaterial quality and material quantity of things. In other words, the information narrative holds primacy as a first cause to effect one's will to choose. Conversely, we don't choose how our material body effects our behavior. If we did, our neurons would have subjective qualities in-themselves, hence object-object. As such, it's nonsensical. That would comprise the exclusivity of the matter narrative.

Remember, in biology and physics has two completely different narratives or laws that govern its behavior. Yet somehow, they need each other to affect all the relationships between mind and matter. The defined quantitative purpose of material neurons is just a means to some end. And that end involves such quality-of-life needs that make us feel good about stuff. Neurons themselves have no such Agency.

So, in this case, one's own subjective qualitative entity (and its properties) take primacy in human motivation, causation and part of its behavior. This describes the human subject-object category; not the object-object category. Or if you prefer, animate information-matter; not inanimate information-matter. The emergence of biological creatures in the universe and their Agency changes the dynamic.



Terrapin Station wrote: March 5th, 2020, 4:30 pm
  1. Do you believe in intrinsic existence without mind?
  2. Do you believe that mind has a cause within the scope of physical reality?
Yes and yes. I'm a realist and a physicalist (aka "materialist").
Idealism is not opposed to materialism in my opinion. Opposition is only possible within the scope of existence. With idealism it is posed that the origin of existence is not of a nature that is an existent.

3017Metaphysician wrote: June 22nd, 2022, 12:07 pmBeing, in itself, is both/and. Feeling/logic; animate/inanimate matter, Will/intellect, physical/metaphysical, right brain/left-brain, ad nauseum.
In my opinion it is simple logic that something of a nature Otherwise than Being must precede Being fundamentally and that that aspect cannot be of the nature of an existent and thus does not cause or be affected by the mentioned problems.

In my opinion the consideration of plausibility of the idea 'meaningful relevance beyond/preceding existence' (beyond from within a subjective perspective, preceding from an outside-philosophical view) is a key to a solution.

The idea: Otherwise than Being is meaningful and not 'nothing vs thing' (an idea only possible from the perspective of existence which makes the idea absurd).

Do you know the work Otherwise than Being by French philosopher Emmanuel Levinas?

Value, I'm generally familiar with the name but have not studied him. Sounds like a good way to interpolate the concept of (human) meaning within our discussion of information and qualities of things-in-themselves, yes?

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/252 ... nd_Essence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherwise_than_Being

In specific the following might be of interest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_saying_and_the_said

The Two Aspects of Language: The Saying and the Said
Levinas's analyses of “the saying” and “the said” in Otherwise Than Being are an attempt to give an account of how, at once, my ethical relationship with the other — the “singular” other — is the basis of all meaningfulness, and the fact that I do not re-make language each time I encounter a new interlocutor, but participate, even in my responsibility for the other in his or her singularity, in a “universal” system of meanings.
https://academic.oup.com/fordham-schola ... ogin=false
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
User avatar
Bahman
Posts: 213
Joined: July 3rd, 2016, 11:51 am

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by Bahman »

Tamminen wrote: May 20th, 2019, 9:25 am Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
Materialism: a theory that physical matter is the only or fundamental reality and that all being and processes and phenomena can be explained as manifestations or results of matter
“Everything is matter.” Who says so? I, the subject. And if there were no subject who says so, there would be no one for whom matter matters, and therefore there would be no sense in saying that there is anything at all, because being and its meaning are not separable from each other. Nothingness of meaning means nothingness of being. So there is at least (1) the subject's (2) consciousness of (3) matter, instead of matter only. All three components are necessary to make a satisfactory ontological picture of reality.

That I, as the subject, could be somehow reducible to my objects, or that my consciousness of matter could be somehow reducible to what I am conscious of, is absurd.

Matter matters to me, but nothing matters to matter.

So by doing a simple phenomenological analysis of the being of matter we find that materialism is a self-contradictory position.
There are at least two phenomena in materialism that cannot be explained within this viewpoint: 1) the emergence of consciousness and 2) the causal efficacy of consciousness. The emergence of consciousness or in better words strong emergence of consciousness refers to a phenomenon in which insentient matter becomes conscious given a specific configuration (this is also known as the hard problem of consciousness). Materialism also suffers from another problem, assuming that insentient matter can become conscious how consciousness can have a causal effect on the environment. To overcome these problems one can suggest a better model, substance dualism, in which there is a mind that experiences and causes, and there is a subject of experience and causation which I call Quidia. So we share something in common. You believe in the subject that I call to mind. Consciousness to me is the state of awareness so it is not something on its own. "What matter is" is beyond the scope of this discussion.
User avatar
Consul
Posts: 6036
Joined: February 21st, 2014, 6:32 am
Location: Germany

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by Consul »

Bahman wrote: February 13th, 2023, 8:37 amThere are at least two phenomena in materialism that cannot be explained within this viewpoint: 1) the emergence of consciousness and 2) the causal efficacy of consciousness.
This objection backfires immediately: There are at least two phenomena in spiritualism (qua belief in the existence and influence of spiritual beings) that cannot be explained within this viewpoint: 1) the emergence of consciousness (from an immaterial soul) and 2) the causal efficacy of consciousness (psychophysical interaction).

QUOTE>
"Our having recourse to an immaterial principle, to account for perception and thought, is only saying in other words, that we do not know in what they consist; for no one will say that he has any conception how the principle of thought can have any more relation to immateriality than to materiality."

(Priestley, Joseph. Hartley's Theory of the Human Mind. On the Principle of the Association of Ideas; with Essays Relating to the Subject of It. London, 1775. p. xx)
<QUOTE
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars
User avatar
Bahman
Posts: 213
Joined: July 3rd, 2016, 11:51 am

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by Bahman »

Consul wrote: February 13th, 2023, 8:45 pm
Bahman wrote: February 13th, 2023, 8:37 amThere are at least two phenomena in materialism that cannot be explained within this viewpoint: 1) the emergence of consciousness and 2) the causal efficacy of consciousness.
This objection backfires immediately: There are at least two phenomena in spiritualism (qua belief in the existence and influence of spiritual beings) that cannot be explained within this viewpoint: 1) the emergence of consciousness (from an immaterial soul) and 2) the causal efficacy of consciousness (psychophysical interaction).

QUOTE>
"Our having recourse to an immaterial principle, to account for perception and thought, is only saying in other words, that we do not know in what they consist; for no one will say that he has any conception how the principle of thought can have any more relation to immateriality than to materiality."

(Priestley, Joseph. Hartley's Theory of the Human Mind. On the Principle of the Association of Ideas; with Essays Relating to the Subject of It. London, 1775. p. xx)
<QUOTE
There is a new version of substance dualism where there are two substances, namely the mind, and Quidia, mind is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience and cause (I can show mind given its properties is necessary otherwise there couldn't be any motion), and Quidia (mental what-it-is-ness) that is the subject of experience and causation.

The argument for the necessity of mind: Consider a change in a system, X to Y, where X and Y are two different states of the system. X and Y cannot lay on the same point otherwise things would be simultaneous so X and Y have to lay on two points one comes after another. But there is a gap between the two points and there is no way that X can cause Y considering the fact that there is no X between the gap. Therefore, there must be a mind with the ability to experience X and cause Y.

I would like to add that one cannot argue in the same manner that experience and causation are two necessary features of materialism since as I showed there is a gap between experience and causation so the experience cannot lead to causation in the absence of a mind.
User avatar
psyreporter
Posts: 1022
Joined: August 15th, 2019, 7:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by psyreporter »

Terrapin Station wrote: March 19th, 2020, 9:37 amI'm an atheist.
Terrapin Station wrote: March 5th, 2020, 4:30 pmSo I'm a physicalist. I'm convinced that the mind is simply brain processes.

I don't at all buy determinism.
psyreporter wrote: November 28th, 2021, 2:18 am
  1. Do you believe in intrinsic existence without mind?
  2. Do you believe that mind has a cause within the scope of physical reality?
Yes and yes. I'm a realist and a physicalist (aka "materialist").
Terrapin Station wrote: December 10th, 2021, 9:18 am
psyreporter wrote: December 9th, 2021, 10:57 am You are dodging a simple question: how are you able to maintain a belief in free will as being a materialist?

The cited quote by free will sceptics indicates that it is impossible to escape determinism in a purely physical world.
lol - what a jackass.
How can a materialist maintain a belief in free will?
PsyReporter.com | “If life were to be good as it was, there would be no reason to exist.”
User avatar
Consul
Posts: 6036
Joined: February 21st, 2014, 6:32 am
Location: Germany

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by Consul »

psyreporter wrote: February 15th, 2023, 3:44 amHow can a materialist maintain a belief in free will?
A materialist who is also a determinist can believe in compatibilist free will; but a materialist doesn't even have to be a determinist, so materialism doesn't per se rule out libertarian free will.
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars
User avatar
psyreporter
Posts: 1022
Joined: August 15th, 2019, 7:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by psyreporter »

The following quote by free will sceptics indicates that it is impossible to escape determinism in a purely physical (materialistic) world.

To make a choice that wasn’t merely the next link in the unbroken chain of causes, you’d have to be able to stand apart from the whole thing, a ghostly presence separate from the material world yet mysteriously still able to influence it. But of course you can’t actually get to this supposed place that’s external to the universe, separate from all the atoms that comprise it and the laws that govern them. Your conscious 'I' is just some of the atoms in the universe, governed by the same predictable laws as all the rest.

(2021) The clockwork universe: is free will an illusion?
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/a ... n-illusion

My question to Terrapin Station was the following:
psyreporter wrote: December 6th, 2021, 10:44 amAt question is (in light of the quote by free will sceptics), how can you argue that mind originates from the physical while in the same time maintaining that you are not a determinist? What factor allows you to claim that you believe in free will when meaning beyond the physical is impossible according to you?
Terrapin Station wrote: December 8th, 2021, 1:19 pmDo you at least understand that not everyone believes that the physical world operates deterministically?
psyreporter wrote: December 8th, 2021, 12:50 pmIs it merely about the 'believing' part for you, similar to people's ability to believe in a pink elephant on the top of Mount Everest?

On what basis can it be said that you can escape determinism in a purely physical world?

In short: can you escape determinism in a purely physical world? If so, how?
Terrapin Station wrote: December 8th, 2021, 1:19 pm Sure, if there are people who believe that there's a pink elephant on top of Mount Everest, then there are people who believe that, and you should be able to understand that, right? Simple question, right?
psyreporter wrote: December 9th, 2021, 4:30 amI could argue that I understand that some people believe in all kind of things, which I already did with my suggestion of people believing that there is a pink elephant on top of Mount Everest, which you confirmed to be a correct example with regard your question.

The scope of our 'interaction' is the simple question how you can possibly justify a belief in free will while in the same time claiming that you are a materialist that believes that mind originates from the physical and that physical reality is ultimate and 'real'.
The question was never answered.

How would the compatibilist free will theory answer the question?
PsyReporter.com | “If life were to be good as it was, there would be no reason to exist.”
User avatar
Consul
Posts: 6036
Joined: February 21st, 2014, 6:32 am
Location: Germany

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by Consul »

psyreporter wrote: February 15th, 2023, 6:32 am The following quote by free will sceptics indicates that it is impossible to escape determinism in a purely physical (materialistic) world.

To make a choice that wasn’t merely the next link in the unbroken chain of causes, you’d have to be able to stand apart from the whole thing, a ghostly presence separate from the material world yet mysteriously still able to influence it. But of course you can’t actually get to this supposed place that’s external to the universe, separate from all the atoms that comprise it and the laws that govern them. Your conscious 'I' is just some of the atoms in the universe, governed by the same predictable laws as all the rest.

(2021) The clockwork universe: is free will an illusion?
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/a ... n-illusion
If you include determinism in the very definition of materialism, then of course the only kind of free will you can have is compatibilist free will. However, materialism isn't and shouldn't be wedded to determinism by definition. Do we know empirically that determinism is true? Well, I'm a materialist myself, but I'm not so sure we do.

"As various sorts of mentalism can be thoroughly mechanistic, so conversely a materialism is compatible with any amount of vital spontaneity, from the palest tychism, through diverse shades of organicism, to the rosiest teleology."

(Williams, Donald Cary. "Naturalism and the Nature of Things." In Principles of Empirical Realism: Philosophical Essays, 212-238. Springfield, IL: Charles C Thomas, 1966. p. 223)
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars
User avatar
Consul
Posts: 6036
Joined: February 21st, 2014, 6:32 am
Location: Germany

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by Consul »

Consul wrote: February 15th, 2023, 6:58 am"As various sorts of mentalism can be thoroughly mechanistic, so conversely a materialism is compatible with any amount of vital spontaneity, from the palest tychism, through diverse shades of organicism, to the rosiest teleology."

(Williams, Donald Cary. "Naturalism and the Nature of Things." In Principles of Empirical Realism: Philosophical Essays, 212-238. Springfield, IL: Charles C Thomas, 1966. p. 223)
However, neither determinism nor indeterminism (qua randomism) gives us truly free will. Truly free choices or decisions are neither predetermined nor random.
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars
User avatar
psyreporter
Posts: 1022
Joined: August 15th, 2019, 7:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by psyreporter »

Consul wrote: February 15th, 2023, 6:58 am... materialism isn't and shouldn't be wedded to determinism by definition.
Why?
Consul wrote: February 15th, 2023, 6:58 amDo we know empirically that determinism is true? Well, I'm a materialist myself, but I'm not so sure we do.
What would cause the uncertainty?
PsyReporter.com | “If life were to be good as it was, there would be no reason to exist.”
User avatar
Consul
Posts: 6036
Joined: February 21st, 2014, 6:32 am
Location: Germany

Re: Materialism is absurd

Post by Consul »

psyreporter wrote: February 15th, 2023, 9:44 am
Consul wrote: February 15th, 2023, 6:58 am... materialism isn't and shouldn't be wedded to determinism by definition.
Why?
Simply because materialism (physicalism) as such claims nothing more than that the world doesn't contain any nonphysical or physically nonreducible entities, which claim is independent of determinism. A world where reductive materialism is true is possibly indeterministic, and a world where reductive spiritualism is true is possibly deterministic.
psyreporter wrote: February 15th, 2023, 9:44 am
Consul wrote: February 15th, 2023, 6:58 amDo we know empirically that determinism is true? Well, I'm a materialist myself, but I'm not so sure we do.
What would cause the uncertainty?
"How could we ever decide whether our world is deterministic or not? Given that some philosophers and some physicists have held firm views—with many prominent examples on each side—one would think that it should be at least a clearly decidable question. Unfortunately, even this much is not clear, and the epistemology of determinism turns out to be a thorny and multi-faceted issue."

The Epistemology of Determinism: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dete ... al/#EpiDet

Mark Balaguer argues that…

"There’s a big problem with the classical argument against free will. It just assumes that determinism is true. The idea behind the argument seems to be that determinism is just a commonsense truism. But it’s actually not a commonsense truism. One of the main lessons of 20th-century physics is that we can’t know by common sense, or by intuition, that determinism is true. Determinism is a controversial hypothesis about the workings of the physical world. We could only know that it’s true by doing some high-level physics. Moreover — and this is another lesson of 20th-century physics — as of right now, we don’t have any good evidence for determinism. In other words, our best physical theories don’t answer the question of whether determinism is true."

Mark Balaguer: Why the Classical Argument Against Free Will Is a Failure
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars
Post Reply

Return to “Epistemology and Metaphysics”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021