Is the question of reality the only meaningful question?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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h_k_s
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Re: Is the question of reality the only meaningful question?

Post by h_k_s »

RJG wrote: November 21st, 2019, 12:25 pm
RJG wrote:Does "change" exist/happen?
h_k_s wrote:Sure there is change. But that is irrelevant to any notion of time.
But if we equate "time" as "change" (as many of us do), then you would agree that "time" does exist? ...yes?

h_k_s wrote:Change can occur in the present.
...in the present what? ...time? (...go ahead, be brave, you can say it! :) )

h_k_s wrote:There does not need to be a past or future for change to occur.
To "occur"??? Your own words contradict yourself. For without a "past or future"; a "before or after"; a "beginning or end", NOTHING can "occur".
If "time" and "change" meant the same thing, then we would not require both words.
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h_k_s
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Re: Is the question of reality the only meaningful question?

Post by h_k_s »

Repoman05 wrote: November 20th, 2019, 9:43 pm
h_k_s wrote: November 20th, 2019, 7:47 pm

That was one of Socrates' main foundational propositions -- that we each and all really know nothing.

It was an early form of skepticism.

A little bit of skepticism is ok, but too much of it is not a good thing.
Oh come on, good and bad are a circular definition because the original meaning was lost. That which brings more life is good. That which causes death is bad. Currently, more codification fallacy is not likely as good as curing the agnosia it caused.
That's a new topic.

You should start a new thread on it.
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Re: Is the question of reality the only meaningful question?

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Papus79 wrote: November 20th, 2019, 9:23 pm
h_k_s wrote: November 20th, 2019, 6:08 pm I see how you are trying to equate motion or change with time.

However this is a false analogy. Nice try though.

A lot of modern people will just have a really hard time (no pun intended) comprehending that "time" really does not exist except in the mind of humans.

Here is a new analogy for you to consider, since you like analogies:

Think of the notion of "time" as having evolved for humans as a recording of their own heartbeats, where 1 second of time equals 1 heartbeat.
Does it particularly matter that it's one heartbeat and not 30 Neros or 100 Bourbons?
Think outside of the box a little. Then you will be thinking like a true philosopher, not just like a clone of Einstein or Hawking.
[/quote]
The only thing I can get from what you said here is something to the effect that meters don't exist if there's no human using them and the distinction being that time is just a measure of motion, not motion itself, therefore our ruler for measuring motion wouldn't exist if we disappeared.

The trouble I have with it though is that it seems like a distinction that doesn't capture most people's actual concerns. From this angle when most people go on about time, measuring time, mysteries of time, they're not on about how we derived our units of measure or the anthropology who who decided what - they're on about rules of motion and entropy in the raw if they're scientists and if its the layperson it's following the schedules of trains, restaurants, appointments, it's navigating designated periods we set aside for being in the same places and carrying out commerce or social events. People quite often come to the idea of determinism through certain specific motion preceding certain specific motion and we could measure either of those in heartbeats, Neros, or Bourbons - so long as we were settled on some scale or another it would be indifferent. Years are our best approximations of revolutions of the earth around the sun - which is motion. A day is our best attempt to capture the length of a rotation of one rotation of the earth based on midnight in Greenwich, England which is to be fair motion related to a specific place on the earth's surface but nevertheless it's motion. That's not to say that the measuring stick itself is real, we could use years or days from some other planet if we chose but we're primarily interested in seasons of the earth and such so that's what we go with.

I also really don't see where any of the above needs Einstein or Hawking. A sun-dial could pretty much have this covered.
[/quote]

A sun dial shows the change in the shadow from the relative motion of the Earth to the Sun.

Has nothing to do with the concept of "time."
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Papus79
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Re: Is the question of reality the only meaningful question?

Post by Papus79 »

h_k_s wrote: November 22nd, 2019, 3:14 pm A sun dial shows the change in the shadow from the relative motion of the Earth to the Sun.

Has nothing to do with the concept of "time."
Then I'd have to admit that you're talking about something esoteric and I'm probably not likely to follow it that well.
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h_k_s
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Re: Is the question of reality the only meaningful question?

Post by h_k_s »

Papus79 wrote: November 22nd, 2019, 11:43 pm
h_k_s wrote: November 22nd, 2019, 3:14 pm A sun dial shows the change in the shadow from the relative motion of the Earth to the Sun.

Has nothing to do with the concept of "time."
Then I'd have to admit that you're talking about something esoteric and I'm probably not likely to follow it that well.
There are lots of budding and great philosophers here on this forum.

I have learned a lot about the esoteric ones between Aristotle in ancient Greece and Roger Scruton at Oxford in England now.

It's a great site. I really enjoy it.
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Re: Is the question of reality the only meaningful question?

Post by Papus79 »

h_k_s wrote: November 23rd, 2019, 3:46 pm I have learned a lot about the esoteric ones between Aristotle in ancient Greece and Roger Scruton at Oxford in England now.
On that note I was actually talking to someone earlier today somewhere else about Douglas Murray and sizing up how much influence Roger Scruton's work had on him. Any particular thoughts one way or another in that case?
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Re: Is the question of reality the only meaningful question?

Post by h_k_s »

Papus79 wrote: November 23rd, 2019, 6:59 pm
h_k_s wrote: November 23rd, 2019, 3:46 pm I have learned a lot about the esoteric ones between Aristotle in ancient Greece and Roger Scruton at Oxford in England now.
On that note I was actually talking to someone earlier today somewhere else about Douglas Murray and sizing up how much influence Roger Scruton's work had on him. Any particular thoughts one way or another in that case?
Murray calls himself a neo-conservative.

Scruton calls himself a Tory conservative.

They both probably agree on most things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Scruton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Murray_(author)
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