Subjective or Objective: Which?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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popeye1945
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Re: Subjective or Objective: Which?

Post by popeye1945 »

:) Subject and object stand or fall together, which means you cannot have one without the other, yet all meanings belongs to the conscious subject, to be bestowed upon a meaningless physical world. :)
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Subjective or Objective: Which?

Post by Terrapin Station »

popeye1945 wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 3:55 am :) Subject and object stand or fall together, which means you cannot have one without the other, yet all meanings belongs to the conscious subject, to be bestowed upon a meaningless physical world. :)
You do not believe that there could be a world without living things?
popeye1945
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Re: Subjective or Objective: Which?

Post by popeye1945 »

All the knowledge we are able to have is cognitive, as such, if there is a physical world without biological consciousness, it could not be known. :)
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Arjen
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Re: Subjective or Objective: Which?

Post by Arjen »

If a tree fell over in the forest, but no one was there to see it. Did it really fall?
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
~Immanuel Kant
Syamsu
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Re: Subjective or Objective: Which?

Post by Syamsu »

1. Creator / chooses / spiritual / identity of which is a matter of chosen opinion
2. Creation / chosen / material / existence of which is a matter fact forced by evidence

All subjective issues, like beauty, pertain to category 1. All objective issues, pertain to category no 2.

The subjective and spiritual, decides what objective and material comes to exist.

The logic of opinion
An opinion is formed by choice and expresses what it is that makes a choice.

Example
To say a painting is beautiful, the opinion is formed by spontaneous expression of emotion with free will, thus chosen. The opinion expresses a love for the way the painting looks. This love is agency of the decision to say the painting is beautiful.

The logic of fact
A fact is obtained by evidence of a creation forcing to produce a 1 to 1 corresponding model of it in the mind.

Example
The police ask a witness for the facts about what happened, it means they want to make a 1 to 1 corresponding reconstruction of what occurred.
"he came at her with a knife", "he held the knife high in the air"
These words provide a 1 to 1 corresponding picture in the mind of what supposedly occurred.

The creationist conceptual scheme hinges on the concept of choice, the mechanism by which a material thing originates.

Definition of making a choice : to make one of alternative futures the present, or, it can be defined as making a possible future the present, or not the present.

Not to be confused with the idea of selecting what is best. It is good advise to think about what is best before making a choice, but all choices are in essence spontaneous.

Everyone totally hates subjectivity, opinion, emotions, God, the soul, the spirit, the creator. Everyone loves, objectivity, fact, material, the creation. That is why society and people's lives, are a mess.

The existence of any material thing is preceded by the possibility of it. First there was the possibility of the Earth coming to be. At this point there were the alternative futures available of the Earth coming to be, and of it not coming to be. Then the alternative future of the Earth coming to be was made the present, it was decided. Although there may have been several decisions, the underlying logic remains the same.

Generally creationist logic holds true with observations. There isn't any material thing observed which was not preceded by the possibility of it. Evenso creationism is universally rejected in academics. Academics produces political ideology in which what is good and beautiful is asserted as scientific fact. Academics does not want to accept the validity of subjectivity, as everyone hates emotions.
popeye1945
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Re: Subjective or Objective: Which?

Post by popeye1945 »

Arjen wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:25 pm If a tree fell over in the forest, but no one was there to see it. Did it really fall?
If there is not a biological consciousness in the forest, then no one would know, assuming the conscious tree doesn't know of its own fall. :)
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