Collective Soul applied to Pan-Psychism

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Sy Borg
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Re: Collective Soul applied to Pan-Psychism

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Pattern-chaser wrote: July 21st, 2020, 10:19 am
Greta wrote: July 19th, 2020, 6:05 pm
What is the collective un/consciousness if not the synchronisation of groups?

What is consciousness but the synchronisation of smaller sense & response agents?
I think connection - connection that allows mutual communication - is a necessary feature of the collective (un)conscious, but I don't think it is sufficient. In this topic, I assume we're taking the (speculative) existence of a collective consciousness as given. But it's a thing. A network that would/could allow communication is not sufficient of itself, I don't think, to create a thing. This thing is surely an emergent consequence of the communication network, no?
Yes, emergent. Life did not always have brains. Before it did, chemokinesis, sensing organelles and glial cells did the sensing work now usually performed by nervous systems and artificial networks.

Like the mitochondria, we appear destined to losing our capacity to live freely, instead providing the power source for our "cells". Certainly we are being ever more controlled, to the point where we often don't even notice just how captive and restricted we humans are by the political/economic/technological structures we make, especially mentally.
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Re: Collective Soul applied to Pan-Psychism

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Resurrecting this thread temporarily because I found a *really* good conversation, ie. Jason Reza Jiorjani with John David Ebert. It's a mashup where they're talking about everything from rivalrous dynamics of technology that'll already be in use this decade (ie. genetic engineering, gadgets doubling as surveillance), the various arms races between countries, but they also get relatively deep on egregores, group mind, Jason's idea of 'Prometheus' as a daemon in the the world currently directing the ways in which we use technology, lots of really cool stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GpYI05A2HQ
Humbly watching Youtube in Universe 25. - Me
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Re: Collective Soul applied to Pan-Psychism

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Pattern-chaser wrote: July 21st, 2020, 10:19 am I think connection - connection that allows mutual communication - is a necessary feature of the collective (un)conscious, but I don't think it is sufficient. In this topic, I assume we're taking the (speculative) existence of a collective consciousness as given. But it's a thing. A network that would/could allow communication is not sufficient of itself, I don't think, to create a thing. This thing is surely an emergent consequence of the communication network, no?
Greta wrote: July 21st, 2020, 6:27 pm Yes, emergent. Life did not always have brains. Before it did, chemokinesis, sensing organelles and glial cells did the sensing work now usually performed by nervous systems and artificial networks.
OK, so what does this emergent collective (un)conscious do, and what about it attracts us so much that we have created this topic to discuss it, when we have no clear evidence that it even exists? It isn't just a communications device; it isn't just that you and I might possibly use it to communicate; it isn't merely a tool. It is a thing, and by the sound of it, it's a living thing. What does it do; what does it want; what does it think?

I am influenced here by my own religious beliefs. If we take the collective (un)conscious we're discussing here, and broaden its scope from humanity to all of the living things in the universe, we get the way that I describe God, the emergent, collective, living, soul of the universe. [ In my view, God did not create the universe, but that's another discussion for another day. ]

I'm not trying to equate our collective (un)conscious with God. I offer the comparison for interest only. But I wonder, what does our collective unconscious think about all this? I wish I could ask.... 🤔
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Re: Collective Soul applied to Pan-Psychism

Post by Sy Borg »

Pattern-chaser wrote: August 3rd, 2020, 11:00 am
Pattern-chaser wrote: July 21st, 2020, 10:19 am I think connection - connection that allows mutual communication - is a necessary feature of the collective (un)conscious, but I don't think it is sufficient. In this topic, I assume we're taking the (speculative) existence of a collective consciousness as given. But it's a thing. A network that would/could allow communication is not sufficient of itself, I don't think, to create a thing. This thing is surely an emergent consequence of the communication network, no?
Greta wrote: July 21st, 2020, 6:27 pm Yes, emergent. Life did not always have brains. Before it did, chemokinesis, sensing organelles and glial cells did the sensing work now usually performed by nervous systems and artificial networks.
OK, so what does this emergent collective (un)conscious do, and what about it attracts us so much that we have created this topic to discuss it, when we have no clear evidence that it even exists? It isn't just a communications device; it isn't just that you and I might possibly use it to communicate; it isn't merely a tool. It is a thing, and by the sound of it, it's a living thing. What does it do; what does it want; what does it think?

I am influenced here by my own religious beliefs. If we take the collective (un)conscious we're discussing here, and broaden its scope from humanity to all of the living things in the universe, we get the way that I describe God, the emergent, collective, living, soul of the universe. [ In my view, God did not create the universe, but that's another discussion for another day. ]

I'm not trying to equate our collective (un)conscious with God. I offer the comparison for interest only. But I wonder, what does our collective unconscious think about all this? I wish I could ask.... 🤔
It depends on the collective mind to which you refer :)

Collective consciousness is everywhere - families, gangs, sports clubs, subcultures, cities, churches, businesses, multinationals, governments, nations, humanity ... the biosphere. Each individual is a collective unconscious - an entire world of microbes and responsive structures. Each collective entity will have both definite inclinations (that you can wonder about) and elements of chaos, which indicate gaps in their systematisation. Each of the above collective entities will have its own preferences, and responses when those preferences aren't met.

Given the ubiquitous "problem of other minds" then we can only understand the internality of other entities by their actions, which is suboptimal but better than nothing.
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