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Present awareness wrote: ↑August 11th, 2020, 12:00 pm
The man I was, no longer “IS” and the man I might be, not yet here, so whom is it that dies at the moment of death?
Obviously the man you are at that moment. What's the problem?
The memories stored in the brain will disappear as the cells die and our self identity is based on those memories of passed events. The past events themselves have already ceased to exist, so it may not be said that the past dies at the moment of our death. Certainly all future potential dies at the moment of death, but how can that which is not yet born, be said to die?
Personal identity is defined by dentition, DNA, thumb prints, verifiable identity papers, and facial recognition thingy.
The affect ( feeling ) of oneself during dying varies in intensity with the degree of activity, information source, and awareness in the brain-mind. For instance some brain- mind lesions such as Alzheimer's can cause great perturbation as the subject wonders who they are.
As a child, I had the opposite concern. Who is it that goes to heaven when I die, my soul or me? I wrote Oral Roberts a letter asking about this. Their reply was that I should consult my local pastor or minister. But, since they were my parents I figured they would have already told me if they knew. So, I didn't ask.
Count Lucanor wrote: ↑August 12th, 2020, 5:48 pm
You should ask what is implied in the statement "the man I was". Because that ultimately defines for you who dies.
The implication of “the man I was” is that what we call the past, is gone, already dead so to speak. Who we were does not die at the moment of death, since who we were is already gone.
Yet, you said that there was a man, and that man had been defined by his past experiences. Such experiences are gone for sure, but the experienced man remained until the moment of death. That was who died.
“The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
Marvin_Edwards wrote: ↑August 13th, 2020, 3:16 pm
As a child, I had the opposite concern. Who is it that goes to heaven when I die, my soul or me? I wrote Oral Roberts a letter asking about this. Their reply was that I should consult my local pastor or minister. But, since they were my parents I figured they would have already told me if they knew. So, I didn't ask.
For traditions like various forms of Christianity that believe in souls, isn't one's soul supposed to be the essence of oneself? So "my soul or me" shouldn't be a sensible distinction, should it?
Marvin_Edwards wrote: ↑August 13th, 2020, 3:16 pm
As a child, I had the opposite concern. Who is it that goes to heaven when I die, my soul or me? I wrote Oral Roberts a letter asking about this. Their reply was that I should consult my local pastor or minister. But, since they were my parents I figured they would have already told me if they knew. So, I didn't ask.
And the graves shall give up their dead!
What do you think this means?
Marvin_Edwards wrote: ↑August 13th, 2020, 3:16 pm
As a child, I had the opposite concern. Who is it that goes to heaven when I die, my soul or me? I wrote Oral Roberts a letter asking about this. Their reply was that I should consult my local pastor or minister. But, since they were my parents I figured they would have already told me if they knew. So, I didn't ask.
For traditions like various forms of Christianity that believe in souls, isn't one's soul supposed to be the essence of oneself? So "my soul or me" shouldn't be a sensible distinction, should it?
I don't think Christianity defines "soul" as "the essence of oneself", though that seems a perfectly reasonable definition to me. When I was a kid, I was worried that it might be something else.
Marvin_Edwards wrote: ↑August 13th, 2020, 3:16 pm
As a child, I had the opposite concern. Who is it that goes to heaven when I die, my soul or me? I wrote Oral Roberts a letter asking about this. Their reply was that I should consult my local pastor or minister. But, since they were my parents I figured they would have already told me if they knew. So, I didn't ask.
And the graves shall give up their dead!
What do you think this means? ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE
That's funny. My current belief is that Heaven and Hell are metaphors for how things will turn out on Earth. As the number of people increases who seek good for others as well as for themselves, life on Earth becomes more like Heaven. As the number of people increases who seek good for themselves at the expense of others, life on Earth becomes more like Hell.
Sculptor1 wrote: ↑August 14th, 2020, 7:30 am
And the graves shall give up their dead!
What do you think this means? ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE
That's funny. My current belief is that Heaven and Hell are metaphors for how things will turn out on Earth. As the number of people increases who seek good for others as well as for themselves, life on Earth becomes more like Heaven. As the number of people increases who seek good for themselves at the expense of others, life on Earth becomes more like Hell.
I think you are suffering from thread creep. This is nothing more than your moralistic fantasy.
I've just seen Fahrenheit 9/11 this evening and am in no mood to bandy words with an Eloi
That's funny. My current belief is that Heaven and Hell are metaphors for how things will turn out on Earth. As the number of people increases who seek good for others as well as for themselves, life on Earth becomes more like Heaven. As the number of people increases who seek good for themselves at the expense of others, life on Earth becomes more like Hell.
I think you are suffering from thread creep. This is nothing more than your moralistic fantasy.
I've just seen Fahrenheit 9/11 this evening and am in no mood to bandy words with an Eloi
Perhaps the biggest illusion that resides in our consciousness, is the illusion of ownership. My house, my car, my money, my body etc. are all attachments of mind which don’t exist in reality. It is only at the moment of death that we realize attachment to these things, has no power.
We take nothing with us when we go. Attachment to memories of whom we were and whom we think we are will evaporate like water on a hot skillet.
We don’t have a soul, we ARE a soul. We don’t have a body, we ARE a body.
I think you are suffering from thread creep. This is nothing more than your moralistic fantasy.
I've just seen Fahrenheit 9/11 this evening and am in no mood to bandy words with an Eloi
Perhaps death is freedom of not being constricted by a physical body. Becoming energy. No need for an individual consciousness, because Energy is everywhere all the time.
Perhaps even free from time? However, in this universe we are still trapped by time. There was a beginning. The big bang. Can energy exist without time?
Present awareness wrote: ↑August 14th, 2020, 11:24 pm
Perhaps the biggest illusion that resides in our consciousness, is the illusion of ownership. My house, my car, my money, my body etc. are all attachments of mind which don’t exist in reality. It is only at the moment of death that we realize attachment to these things, has no power.
We take nothing with us when we go. Attachment to memories of whom we were and whom we think we are will evaporate like water on a hot skillet.
We don’t have a soul, we ARE a soul. We don’t have a body, we ARE a body.
