Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
- Hans-Werner Hammen
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
IF Sire I.Kant was "wrong about this and that" -
It does not logically follow that Sire i.Kant was wrong about everything.
all the more as space and time do not have mass,
iow are not even things, deer friend!
- RJG
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
If we don't choose the thoughts that we use in choosing, then we don't actually "choose" anything. And if we have no choice in choosing, then "I could have done otherwise" would be FALSE.Marvin_Edwards wrote:The fact is that whenever choosing occurs, “I could have done otherwise“ will always be true.
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
- LuckyR
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
Different people use "could" differently. Most agree that time only flows one direction, therefore the Original premise has different practical and theoretical conclusions.popeye1945 wrote: ↑April 12th, 2021, 4:42 am Rig, right on, I could have done differently is impossible to know.
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
- LuckyR
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
First of all, time cannot go backwards, since there is no such thing as time. But purely for the sake of the argument,if you could go back in time you could go back to the time of a decision and choose to do it differently.popeye1945 wrote: ↑April 12th, 2021, 4:19 pm Do expand! what does could mean when time flows backward?
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
That argument, Lucky, will not do. If you could go back in time you would go back more or less a different person from the person who back then chose so foolishly or so wisely.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 13th, 2021, 2:12 amFirst of all, time cannot go backwards, since there is no such thing as time. But purely for the sake of the argument,if you could go back in time you could go back to the time of a decision and choose to do it differently.popeye1945 wrote: ↑April 12th, 2021, 4:19 pm Do expand! what does could mean when time flows backward?
True, you would have the same DNA , documentation, and dental history however there is no essentially unchanging Lucky.
If there were a supernatural Judge, she would judge us as dynamic processes, not as essences.There are profound implications for educational mores and methods.
- RJG
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
Bingo! - we can’t know what we know until after we know it.Popeye1945 wrote:How could you [LuckyR] even begin to make such a statement when you cannot even know what your next thought is going to be?
If we cannot know our thoughts before we know them, then we cannot choose our thoughts, nor those thoughts that choose our thoughts. Unfortunately, there are no free thoughts to be had. All the ones that we are conscious of, have already been scripted for us.
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
There is no definitive Cheshire Cat until the moment it dies then what defines the Cheshire Cat is only that there was a smile going on that correlated with other processes such that several processes seem to form a nexus that we call "The Cheshire Cat". And BTW SirJohn Tenniel did manage to draw a grin without a Cat.popeye1945 wrote: ↑April 13th, 2021, 11:29 am Weird isn't it, someone who covers this fully is Sam Harris, among other things he is a neurologist. So much for freewill and thus, SIN. Between this and quantum physics it's Alice in wonderland. I've seen a cat without a smile but a smile without a cat?
- LuckyR
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
As I mentioned, going back in time is impossible, so my comments (and your's) are meaningless. But again for the sake of the argument, if you could go back in time, it makes more sense that you would be rewinding the tape (so you would be identical to who you were the first time) not as you suggest that you would progress with what you learned from your first try at decision making.Belindi wrote: ↑April 13th, 2021, 5:17 amThat argument, Lucky, will not do. If you could go back in time you would go back more or less a different person from the person who back then chose so foolishly or so wisely.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 13th, 2021, 2:12 amFirst of all, time cannot go backwards, since there is no such thing as time. But purely for the sake of the argument,if you could go back in time you could go back to the time of a decision and choose to do it differently.popeye1945 wrote: ↑April 12th, 2021, 4:19 pm Do expand! what does could mean when time flows backward?
True, you would have the same DNA , documentation, and dental history however there is no essentially unchanging Lucky.
If there were a supernatural Judge, she would judge us as dynamic processes, not as essences.There are profound implications for educational mores and methods.
- LuckyR
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
Huh? Making decisions does not require pre knowledge of thoughts.RJG wrote: ↑April 13th, 2021, 9:08 amBingo! - we can’t know what we know until after we know it.Popeye1945 wrote:How could you [LuckyR] even begin to make such a statement when you cannot even know what your next thought is going to be?
If we cannot know our thoughts before we know them, then we cannot choose our thoughts, nor those thoughts that choose our thoughts. Unfortunately, there are no free thoughts to be had. All the ones that we are conscious of, have already been scripted for us.
- RJG
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
Does choosing (making decisions) require thoughts? ...if so, then did you choose these thoughts? ...or does it take thoughts to choose?LuckyR wrote:Huh? Making decisions does not require pre knowledge of thoughts.
If we don't choose the thoughts that we use in choosing, then we don't actually "choose" anything!
- LuckyR
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
It's less about thoughts. If one menu only has one dish and another menu has numerous ones, the first case doesn't have a choice, regardless of your thoughts. Similarly if you have the second menu any selection is a choice whether you ponder it with tremendous thought or if you close your eyes and point without thoughts.RJG wrote: ↑April 13th, 2021, 2:20 pmDoes choosing (making decisions) require thoughts? ...if so, then did you choose these thoughts? ...or does it take thoughts to choose?LuckyR wrote:Huh? Making decisions does not require pre knowledge of thoughts.
If we don't choose the thoughts that we use in choosing, then we don't actually "choose" anything!
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