Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
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Belindi,
LOL!! You've being reading Whitehead, Sir John, simply made its probability wave collapse --LOL! The smile that is!!
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
Not only is going back in time impossible, also impossible is changing what necessarily happened when ,where, and how any event did happen.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 13th, 2021, 2:02 pmAs I mentioned, going back in time is impossible, so my comments (and your's) are meaningless. But again for the sake of the argument, if you could go back in time, it makes more sense that you would be rewinding the tape (so you would be identical to who you were the first time) not as you suggest that you would progress with what you learned from your first try at decision making.Belindi wrote: ↑April 13th, 2021, 5:17 amThat argument, Lucky, will not do. If you could go back in time you would go back more or less a different person from the person who back then chose so foolishly or so wisely.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 13th, 2021, 2:12 amFirst of all, time cannot go backwards, since there is no such thing as time. But purely for the sake of the argument,if you could go back in time you could go back to the time of a decision and choose to do it differently.popeye1945 wrote: ↑April 12th, 2021, 4:19 pm Do expand! what does could mean when time flows backward?
True, you would have the same DNA , documentation, and dental history however there is no essentially unchanging Lucky.
If there were a supernatural Judge, she would judge us as dynamic processes, not as essences.There are profound implications for educational mores and methods.
There is no "tape". A tape is one dimensional whereas circumstances that surround and cause any event are multi-dimensional. the one-dimensional metaphor shows how many people confuse determinism with single-cause causation. It is true we have to select what we believe to be proximal causes (we are not omniscient).
You are not guaranteed to learn from your decision making, nor is what you learn guaranteed to be either true ,good, or useful.There is no 'progress' towards any Utopia, perfection, or Heaven on Earth; there is only change.
When I wrote "There are profound implications for educational mores and methods" I referred to the child's and the adult's plasticity of cerebral function which is absolute and is not limited by essence of that individual. True, some are slow learners or brain-mind damaged but these people, same as everyone else, lack any essential self which might be blamed for perceived shortcomings. As far as we know, reason is the main road to truth ; which is like saying "as far as we know vertebrates are more intelligent than beetles". Both claims are empirical.
- RJG
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
RJG wrote:If we don't choose the thoughts that we use in choosing, then we don't actually "choose" anything.
Not so. If we didn't choose the thoughts that we pondered with, then again, we didn't choose anything.LuckyR wrote:...Similarly if you have the second menu any selection is a choice whether you ponder it with tremendous thought…
The thoughts that we pondered with were given to us, ...we did not ask for them, nor did we choose them, ...we only 'experienced' them after-the-fact (after they happened; after they popped into our head).
Again, not so. If we did not choose the thoughts and urges that directed us to "close our eyes and point", then again, we didn't choose anything.LuckyR wrote:...or if you close your eyes and point without thoughts.
Bottom line: Whether we have thoughts or not, there is no choosing in anything. We don't "choose" anything, we only 'experience' after-the-fact those choices that were made.
- LuckyR
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
Well, that's one theory. Funny that the word "choosing" was invented long before there was a you (or me). But you are free to choose to not believe that choosing exists.RJG wrote: ↑April 14th, 2021, 7:12 amRJG wrote:If we don't choose the thoughts that we use in choosing, then we don't actually "choose" anything.Not so. If we didn't choose the thoughts that we pondered with, then again, we didn't choose anything.LuckyR wrote:...Similarly if you have the second menu any selection is a choice whether you ponder it with tremendous thought…
The thoughts that we pondered with were given to us, ...we did not ask for them, nor did we choose them, ...we only 'experienced' them after-the-fact (after they happened; after they popped into our head).
Again, not so. If we did not choose the thoughts and urges that directed us to "close our eyes and point", then again, we didn't choose anything.LuckyR wrote:...or if you close your eyes and point without thoughts.
Bottom line: Whether we have thoughts or not, there is no choosing in anything. We don't "choose" anything, we only 'experience' after-the-fact those choices that were made.
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
Am I really free to choose? ...did I choose the thoughts that formed the belief that choosing exists/not-exists?”LuckyR” wrote:But you are free to choose to not believe that choosing exists.
If I don't choose the thoughts that are needed to choose with, then what choosing did I really do?
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Re: Yes, I Could Have Done Otherwise
Don't ask me, it's your theory, your explanation comes from you not me.RJG wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 8:56 amAm I really free to choose? ...did I choose the thoughts that formed the belief that choosing exists/not-exists?”LuckyR” wrote:But you are free to choose to not believe that choosing exists.
If I don't choose the thoughts that are needed to choose with, then what choosing did I really do?
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