Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

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impermanence
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Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by impermanence »

Reality is a slippery slope indeed. And assumptions are just that. It seems unlikely that the first math equation we are taught, 1 + 1 = 2, is only correct under a specific set of assumptions that are easily proven false.

I believe everyone reading this can agree that all points in the Universe are unique, that is, each occupies a space that is subject to unique forces. Therefore, each object, no matter how similar it may appear to another, is not similar.

Therefore, how can "2" of anything exist?
hegel
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Re: Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by hegel »

impermanence wrote: December 7th, 2020, 12:15 pm Reality is a slippery slope indeed. And assumptions are just that. It seems unlikely that the first math equation we are taught, 1 + 1 = 2, is only correct under a specific set of assumptions that are easily proven false.

I believe everyone reading this can agree that all points in the Universe are unique, that is, each occupies a space that is subject to unique forces. Therefore, each object, no matter how similar it may appear to another, is not similar.

Therefore, how can "2" of anything exist?
It is an artifice.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by Sculptor1 »

There are no integers in reality.
There are no circles. In fact since the universe is a 3 dimensional landscape in constant motion through time, there are no 2 diminsional shapes of any kind.
But even when it comes to 3D shapes nothing is constant or perfect so there are also no cubes and spheres either.
It would seem obvious enough that maths and maths concepts are only approximations and that the entire system upon which it is based; numbers, measurements and quantities is faulty since we have irrational numbers.
There are no straight lines, no points, or surfaces. They are but conveniences for the us, to help us describe the world in ideal ways.
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Jack D Ripper
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Re: Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by Jack D Ripper »

impermanence wrote: December 7th, 2020, 12:15 pm Reality is a slippery slope indeed. And assumptions are just that. It seems unlikely that the first math equation we are taught, 1 + 1 = 2, is only correct under a specific set of assumptions that are easily proven false.

I believe everyone reading this can agree that all points in the Universe are unique, that is, each occupies a space that is subject to unique forces. Therefore, each object, no matter how similar it may appear to another, is not similar.

Therefore, how can "2" of anything exist?

I recommend that the next time you go to a store and buy something, such that there is two dollars in change from what you give them (like if the total bill is $3 and you hand them a five dollar bill, or if the total bill is $8 and you hand them a ten dollar bill, etc.), and when the cashier hands a one dollar bill, and another one dollar bill, that you complain and demand to speak with the manager and refuse to leave because they did not give you two dollars in change.

Use your argument and insist that they really give you 2 dollars, and refuse to accept the one dollar and the other one dollar, for the reason given in your post. Refuse to leave and demand that the police are called to deal with the issue.


And the next time you find a store advertising 2 for the price of 1, go and complain and talk to the manager about them not really giving you two of anything, and demand that they give you two and refuse to leave until they give you two. Demand that the police are called to get them to honor their agreement.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume
impermanence
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Re: Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by impermanence »

Jack D Ripper wrote: December 7th, 2020, 9:02 pm I recommend that the next time you go to a store and buy something, such that there is two dollars in change from what you give them (like if the total bill is $3 and you hand them a five dollar bill, or if the total bill is $8 and you hand them a ten dollar bill, etc.), and when the cashier hands a one dollar bill, and another one dollar bill, that you complain and demand to speak with the manager and refuse to leave because they did not give you two dollars in change.

Use your argument and insist that they really give you 2 dollars, and refuse to accept the one dollar and the other one dollar, for the reason given in your post. Refuse to leave and demand that the police are called to deal with the issue.


And the next time you find a store advertising 2 for the price of 1, go and complain and talk to the manager about them not really giving you two of anything, and demand that they give you two and refuse to leave until they give you two. Demand that the police are called to get them to honor their agreement.
Jack, what is your point?
impermanence
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Re: Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by impermanence »

hegel wrote: December 7th, 2020, 4:36 pm It is an artifice.
How so?
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UniversalAlien
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Re: Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by UniversalAlien »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 7th, 2020, 5:27 pm There are no integers in reality.
There are no circles. In fact since the universe is a 3 dimensional landscape in constant motion through time, there are no 2 diminsional shapes of any kind.
But even when it comes to 3D shapes nothing is constant or perfect so there are also no cubes and spheres either.
It would seem obvious enough that maths and maths concepts are only approximations and that the entire system upon which it is based; numbers, measurements and quantities is faulty since we have irrational numbers.
There are no straight lines, no points, or surfaces. They are but conveniences for the us, to help us describe the world in ideal ways.
Yes, that is one way of looking at it - numbers and concepts are false precepts of reality.

Problem is - is that there is no provable reality to begin with - Only a conceptual matrix.

Prove an existent and consistent state of reality - You can't, it doesn't exist.

So all we have is the matrix and can only describe it symbolically.

The importance of this symbology should not be over or under rated as it is 'relative'.

I have argued in the past that Einstein's 'theory of Relativity' actually altered reality itself
- the counter argument was that it only showed reality in fuller light and the reality itself did not change.

Of course what does that mean :?: - Since reality can not be fully defined or proven - the actual concepts of reality becomes part of its essence, what it is for this moment in time - which of course is always changing - Or should I say 'probably' always changing :?:
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Marvin_Edwards
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Re: Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by Marvin_Edwards »

impermanence wrote: December 7th, 2020, 12:15 pm Reality is a slippery slope indeed. And assumptions are just that. It seems unlikely that the first math equation we are taught, 1 + 1 = 2, is only correct under a specific set of assumptions that are easily proven false.

I believe everyone reading this can agree that all points in the Universe are unique, that is, each occupies a space that is subject to unique forces. Therefore, each object, no matter how similar it may appear to another, is not similar.

Therefore, how can "2" of anything exist?
How many fingers do you have? Are they all identical? The notion that counting requires items to be identical in every way is clearly false.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by Sculptor1 »

UniversalAlien wrote: December 7th, 2020, 11:46 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: December 7th, 2020, 5:27 pm There are no integers in reality.
There are no circles. In fact since the universe is a 3 dimensional landscape in constant motion through time, there are no 2 diminsional shapes of any kind.
But even when it comes to 3D shapes nothing is constant or perfect so there are also no cubes and spheres either.
It would seem obvious enough that maths and maths concepts are only approximations and that the entire system upon which it is based; numbers, measurements and quantities is faulty since we have irrational numbers.
There are no straight lines, no points, or surfaces. They are but conveniences for the us, to help us describe the world in ideal ways.
Yes, that is one way of looking at it - numbers and concepts are false precepts of reality.

Problem is - is that there is no provable reality to begin with - Only a conceptual matrix.
That might be a problem for you, but it is not a problem for what I said.
Maths in internally faulty. You have no need to consult reality to find problems with it.

Prove an existent and consistent state of reality - You can't, it doesn't exist.
Why do you ask?

So all we have is the matrix and can only describe it symbolically.
Um... You can't say anything definite about reality except you think there is a matrix. You are contradicting yourself.

The importance of this symbology should not be over or under rated as it is 'relative'.
empty hyperbole

I have argued in the past that Einstein's 'theory of Relativity' actually altered reality itself
- the counter argument was that it only showed reality in fuller light and the reality itself did not change.
Have fun with that.

Of course what does that mean :?: - Since reality can not be fully defined or proven - the actual concepts of reality becomes part of its essence, what it is for this moment in time - which of course is always changing - Or should I say 'probably' always changing :?:
Not remotely relevant to my point
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Sculptor1
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Re: Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by Sculptor1 »

Marvin_Edwards wrote: December 7th, 2020, 11:46 pm
impermanence wrote: December 7th, 2020, 12:15 pm Reality is a slippery slope indeed. And assumptions are just that. It seems unlikely that the first math equation we are taught, 1 + 1 = 2, is only correct under a specific set of assumptions that are easily proven false.

I believe everyone reading this can agree that all points in the Universe are unique, that is, each occupies a space that is subject to unique forces. Therefore, each object, no matter how similar it may appear to another, is not similar.

Therefore, how can "2" of anything exist?
How many fingers do you have? Are they all identical? The notion that counting requires items to be identical in every way is clearly false.
You have that precisely backwards.
It is not fingers that are at fault but pretending that all fingers are equal to one.
Fingers are different the problem is with the counting.
Fingers, oranges, apples - all are unique. No two oranges have the same weight or structure. Saying to have two oranges is just an apporximation, yet maths says 1=1, when this is not empirically true of ANY thing in the universe.
baker
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Re: Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by baker »

impermanence wrote: December 7th, 2020, 12:15 pm Reality is a slippery slope indeed. And assumptions are just that. It seems unlikely that the first math equation we are taught, 1 + 1 = 2, is only correct under a specific set of assumptions that are easily proven false.

I believe everyone reading this can agree that all points in the Universe are unique, that is, each occupies a space that is subject to unique forces. Therefore, each object, no matter how similar it may appear to another, is not similar.

Therefore, how can "2" of anything exist?
This is a matter of mathematical notation. If something is measured in the same units, then, for the purposes of calculation, we can drop the units. If, in a mathematical text, no units are given, it is assumed that the units are the same for all the numbers.

We mean
1a + 1a = 2a

and for the sake of brevity, write
1 + 1 = 2
baker
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Re: Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by baker »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 8th, 2020, 5:02 amFingers, oranges, apples - all are unique. No two oranges have the same weight or structure. Saying to have two oranges is just an apporximation, yet maths says 1=1, when this is not empirically true of ANY thing in the universe.
You just need to decide on the unit of counting.

A unit like "fruit" is readily countable, even if you're counting apples, oranges, bananas, etc.

Of course, you could say that 1 banana + 1 apple does not 1 orange make. But in that case, you're adding 1a + 1b, not 1f + 1f.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by Sculptor1 »

baker wrote: December 8th, 2020, 10:03 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 8th, 2020, 5:02 amFingers, oranges, apples - all are unique. No two oranges have the same weight or structure. Saying to have two oranges is just an apporximation, yet maths says 1=1, when this is not empirically true of ANY thing in the universe.
You just need to decide on the unit of counting.

A unit like "fruit" is readily countable, even if you're counting apples, oranges, bananas, etc.

Of course, you could say that 1 banana + 1 apple does not 1 orange make. But in that case, you're adding 1a + 1b, not 1f + 1f.
No.
Orange A and Orange B. Make Orange A and Orange B. Since Orange A = Orange B is FALSE. You cannot apply 1+1=2, since 1+1=2 relies on 1=1
baker
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Re: Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by baker »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 8th, 2020, 10:52 amOrange A and Orange B. Make Orange A and Orange B. Since Orange A = Orange B is FALSE.
If you do this, you're not counting to begin with.
We're talking about counting. Counting requires deciding what your unit for counting will be.
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Thomyum2
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Re: Why 1 + 1 does not equal 2

Post by Thomyum2 »

Everyone's making this way to complicated. 1 + 1 equals 2 because it is defined that way, not for any other reason. "1 + 1" means exactly the same thing as "2". These are just two ways of writing the same thing.
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