Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

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Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
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Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

Sometimes there will be news headlines about someone living with "no brain" but actually the person has 10% of a brain left or such, so in those cases the news headline is using hyperbole, if not being outright dishonest. This topic is not for discussing whether someone can be conscious with a very small and/or severely damaged brain. Rather, this topic is for discussing whether a person/creature can be conscious without any brain at all.

Please do not answer with a simple yes or no, but instead make sure to provide evidence and argument to backup your answer.
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Re: Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

Post by Protagoras »

Scott wrote: July 15th, 2021, 11:56 am Sometimes there will be news headlines about someone living with "no brain" but actually the person has 10% of a brain left or such, so in those cases the news headline is using hyperbole, if not being outright dishonest. This topic is not for discussing whether someone can be conscious with a very small and/or severely damaged brain. Rather, this topic is for discussing whether a person/creature can be conscious without any brain at all.

Please do not answer with a simple yes or no, but instead make sure to provide evidence and argument to backup your answer.


What does no brain at all entail? The head severed from the neck?
Humans can do without limbs but not without a head!!

But if your asking can a "dead" Human have conciousness then having no material brain is no obstacle.

There is zero proof and in fact can never be proof that the material brain is the source of life.

Matter has never been observed to turn into life,or vice versa.
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Re: Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

Post by RJG »

Scott wrote:Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?
Consciousness cannot exist without 'memory'. And if memory (memory function) is confined within the brain, then NO, consciousness cannot exist without the brain that possesses a memory function.

Consciousness is the bodily (brain) experience of 'recognition', made possible by memory. --- No memory = no recognition = no consciousness.
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Re: Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

Scott wrote:Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?
RJG wrote: July 15th, 2021, 12:19 pm Consciousness cannot exist without 'memory'.
That statement appears to be ipse dixit.

Nonetheless, I have just now made two more topics to explore the idea:

1. Consciousness as the bodily experience of recognition, made possible by memory?

2. Does consciousness require memory?
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Re: Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

Post by NickGaspar »

Scott wrote: July 15th, 2021, 11:56 am Sometimes there will be news headlines about someone living with "no brain" but actually the person has 10% of a brain left or such, so in those cases the news headline is using hyperbole, if not being outright dishonest. This topic is not for discussing whether someone can be conscious with a very small and/or severely damaged brain. Rather, this topic is for discussing whether a person/creature can be conscious without any brain at all.

Please do not answer with a simple yes or no, but instead make sure to provide evidence and argument to backup your answer.
To be conscious means to be aware of Environmental and Organic stimuli.The rest of our mind properties (reason, memory, pattern recognition, symbolic language etc) enable the introduction of content in those conscious states (introduce meaning,concepts in the form of thoughts).
The basic state of conscious processing is achieved by the ARAS which is located low in the brain stem. The Central lateral thalamus plays a key role in connecting the brain stem with the rest of the brain modules responsible for all the above mental properties.*
So as long there is a brain stem, neuroplasticity "reshapes" the remaining available parts of the brain so that they can provide the content (previous experiences, symbolic language, reasoning)which it was previously provided by typical areas of a human brain.

So based on our current scientific knowledge about the brain and how those states are achieved, the brain is sufficient and Necessary for conscious states to emerge.
It is reasonable to conclude , based on objective scientific evidence, that conscious states can not "exist" when all the parts of a brain are missing.

*https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/tiny- ... sciousness
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Re: Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Scott wrote: July 15th, 2021, 11:56 am This topic is for discussing whether a person/creature can be conscious without any brain at all.
Does this person/creature have, er, something that might fulfill some/all of the functions of a brain, even though it isn't a brain? Or are we considering something quite ... alien?
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Re: Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

Post by Tegularius »

Without a brain even a permanent comatose state would be impossible since all the autonomic functions would also be missing. Anyway, how could consciousness exist if that which creates it doesn't exist whether that be organic, electronic, any merging of the two or whatever!
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Re: Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

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Protagoras wrote: July 15th, 2021, 12:07 pmWhat does no brain at all entail? The head severed from the neck?
Humans can do without limbs but not without a head!!
No brain means empty skull. That is, everything above the spinal cord is missing.

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Re: Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

Post by Protagoras »

Consul wrote: July 15th, 2021, 6:20 pm
Protagoras wrote: July 15th, 2021, 12:07 pmWhat does no brain at all entail? The head severed from the neck?
Humans can do without limbs but not without a head!!
No brain means empty skull. That is, everything above the spinal cord is missing.

Image
And how do scientists now the skull is empty?
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Re: Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

Post by Consul »

Protagoras wrote: July 15th, 2021, 6:22 pmAnd how do scientists now the skull is empty?
By using this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CT_scan
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Re: Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

Post by Protagoras »

Consul wrote: July 15th, 2021, 6:30 pm
Protagoras wrote: July 15th, 2021, 6:22 pmAnd how do scientists now the skull is empty?
By using this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CT_scan
So the person didn't know or feel they had an empty dull?
The CT shows empty space!?
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Re: Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

Post by Consul »

There are tons of scientific evidence—especially coming from medicine, neurology, and psychiatry—against the possibility of brain-independent consciousness. Of course, those believing in this possibility will argue that evidence for the brain-dependence of human or animal consciousness isn't necessarily evidence for the absolute brain-dependence of consciousness. On the other hand, there is no positive evidence for the actuality of nonhuman or nonanimal consciousness. Panpsychism is unverifiable in principle.
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Re: Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

Post by Consul »

Protagoras wrote: July 15th, 2021, 6:33 pm So the person didn't know or feel they had an empty dull?
The CT shows empty space!?
There are no known cases of conscious persons with empty skulls! Persons with empty skulls are dead.
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Re: Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

Post by Consul »

Consul wrote: July 15th, 2021, 6:49 pm There are no known cases of conscious persons with empty skulls! Persons with empty skulls are dead.
There are only living persons with more or less incomplete brains, but not having a whole brain is not the same as not having a brain at all.
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Re: Can consciousness exist without any brain at all?

Post by Protagoras »

Consul wrote: July 15th, 2021, 6:52 pm
Consul wrote: July 15th, 2021, 6:49 pm There are no known cases of conscious persons with empty skulls! Persons with empty skulls are dead.
There are only living persons with more or less incomplete brains, but not having a whole brain is not the same as not having a brain at all.
So how does one know whether a brain is incomplete using a CT?
Compared to what is it incomplete?
Or is it just small? Or?
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