Consciousness as the bodily experience of recognition, made possible by memory?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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Leontiskos
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Favorite Philosopher: Aristotle and Aquinas

Re: Consciousness as the bodily experience of recognition, made possible by memory?

Post by Leontiskos »

RJG wrote: July 25th, 2021, 4:59 pm Huh? Leon, this is a "strawman" argument here; this is not our argument!

Our argument (your objection #1) is based on my claim/statement that memory is required for consciousness. And your assertion that this means that animals without consciousness must not have memory. (...which is a logical error ["converse error"; "affirming the consequent"]).
Everything I said in that post runs exactly parallel to your memory/consciousness claims. I was just using our propositions about eyes/sight to simplify.

What has happened in this thread is that you have amended your original statement, though without admitting it. Referencing my previous post, you amended proposition (1) to be proposition (2), and they are not logically equivalent. If you remember, this is what I said in my first post:
Leontiskos wrote: July 21st, 2021, 2:34 am...You say that recognition is a form of knowledge, but presumably you do not believe that animals have knowledge. If this is true then this sentence would need to be amended...
You did amend the sentence(s). Here are your original statements:
RJG wrote: July 16th, 2021, 7:10 amThose entities who possess eyes have the capability to see.
Those entities who possess ears have the capability to hear.
Those entities who possess memory have the capability to know (to recognize; to be conscious).
And here are your amended statements:
RJG wrote: July 25th, 2021, 8:52 am Without eyes there can be no seeing.
Without ears there can be no hearing.
Without memory there can be no knowing.
These two sets of statements are not logically equivalent. Indeed, to move from the first set to the second set would require the logical fallacy of denying the antecedent, which I explained in post #390465.

So this is the same argument as my Objection 1. There I pointed out a problem with your post and suggested an amendation. You have denied me every step of the way, but in reality you have made the amendation I suggested. I am just trying to get you to see the fact that you did in fact make an amendation: that the first set of statements is not logically equivalent to the second set.

-Leontiskos
Wrestling with Philosophy since 456 BC

Socrates: He's like that, Hippias, not refined. He's garbage, he cares about nothing but the truth.
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RJG
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Re: Consciousness as the bodily experience of recognition, made possible by memory?

Post by RJG »

RJG wrote:Our argument (your objection #1) is based on my claim/statement that memory is required for consciousness. And your assertion that this means that animals without consciousness must not have memory. (...which is a logical error ["converse error"; "affirming the consequent"]).
Leontiskos wrote:What has happened in this thread is that you have amended your original statement, though without admitting it. Referencing my previous post, you amended proposition (1) to be proposition (2), and they are not logically equivalent. If you remember, this is what I said in my first post:
Sorry Leon, but to me, this is all just a smokescreen; an avoidance tactic/game. I'm not interested in playing these kinds of game. Have a good day.
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Leontiskos
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Re: Consciousness as the bodily experience of recognition, made possible by memory?

Post by Leontiskos »

RJG wrote: July 26th, 2021, 10:46 am
RJG wrote:Our argument (your objection #1) is based on my claim/statement that memory is required for consciousness. And your assertion that this means that animals without consciousness must not have memory. (...which is a logical error ["converse error"; "affirming the consequent"]).
Leontiskos wrote:What has happened in this thread is that you have amended your original statement, though without admitting it. Referencing my previous post, you amended proposition (1) to be proposition (2), and they are not logically equivalent. If you remember, this is what I said in my first post:
Sorry Leon, but to me, this is all just a smokescreen; an avoidance tactic/game. I'm not interested in playing these kinds of game. Have a good day.
Yeah man, I am tiring of your avoidance game, so I agree. It's hard to imagine how I could make your fallacies any more obvious. Take care.

However, I will leave you with a standing challenge. Go back to post #390465 and look at propositions (1) and (2), both of which are direct quotes from you. I have claimed that (1) and (2) are not logically equivalent and that you have equivocated throughout the thread by employing the fallacy of negating the antecedent. The proper philosophical response to my claim is to demonstrate that (1) and (2) are not equivocal. If someone were to engage in philosophical dialogue, that is how they would respond. I will leave this option open to you.

(The expanded sets of propositions was quoted in post #390475)
Wrestling with Philosophy since 456 BC

Socrates: He's like that, Hippias, not refined. He's garbage, he cares about nothing but the truth.
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