Why is there something rather than nothing?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
Consul
Posts: 6038
Joined: February 21st, 2014, 6:32 am
Location: Germany

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by Consul »

sammygolddigger wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 6:52 am
Consul wrote: August 21st, 2021, 5:37 pmEven if nothing existed but mental subjects and mental items (ideas, impressions, images), they wouldn't be mere objects of thought in the sense of being nothing but figments of fantasy. On the contrary, if subjective idealism were true, they would constitute reality—a wholly mental reality, but a reality nonetheless. If something is a mere object of thought, it is nothing in itself; so there are only the thoughts about/of it (and the words, concepts, images, or pictures representing it). Existing mental subjects and mental items, including thoughts, are something in themselves, so there is more to them than my/our thoughts about/of them.
If subjective idealism were true, then why would subjects exist? Where would they come from?
This is off-topic here, so you'll find my reply there: viewtopic.php?p=392732#p392732
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars
User avatar
UniversalAlien
Posts: 1578
Joined: March 20th, 2012, 9:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by UniversalAlien »

PoeticUniverse wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 2:24 pm
UniversalAlien wrote: August 21st, 2021, 7:20 pm As nothing does not exist by default something must exist.
That something, then, is ever all here, as a default entity.

Is the default a capability/possibility or is it something actual, like energy?
All it is is a simple answer to a simple question "Why is there something rather than nothing?" - nothing more.

And I only give it as an alternative to the many more complex answers this question generates

- It is not supposed to be the be all or end all to the question.
User avatar
Consul
Posts: 6038
Joined: February 21st, 2014, 6:32 am
Location: Germany

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by Consul »

PoeticUniverse wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 2:24 pm
UniversalAlien wrote: August 21st, 2021, 7:20 pm As nothing does not exist by default something must exist.
That something, then, is ever all here, as a default entity.
Is the default a capability/possibility or is it something actual, like energy?
Everything that is/exists is actual. There are no merely possible entities. Capabilities/abilities/potentialities/dispositionalities are all actual properties; only their manifestations are unactual as long as they are unmanifested, but an unmanifested capability is as actual as a manifested one.
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars
User avatar
Halc
Posts: 405
Joined: March 17th, 2018, 9:47 pm

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by Halc »

AverageBozo wrote: August 16th, 2021, 10:28 am The question assumes that there is something and, by LEM, there cannot be nothing if there is something.
Something I would have said. The OP seems to ask a biased question rather than first questioning the bias.

I find no empirical difference to being or not being a member of the 'set of things that exist'. I find no meaning to membership in such a set, but I suppose it all boils down to one's definition of 'exists'. I find a relational definition to be more reasonable: The cup exists to us because both you and I share a mutual agreement about or experience of it. Not that I define existence in any kind of conscious terms. Just a shared relationship.
The truth is that there could be nothing rather than something.
If the list of things that exist was empty, then it would distinguish nothing from anything else, and be no different that everything being on the list. That renders existence (as a property) meaningless, which is how I find it.
That there is something rather than nothing is verified by the fact that we are (or at least I am) here to discuss this.
Then here exists to us (a relation), but it doesn't imply meaning to the existence of 'us' or 'here' (properties).

If there is a property of existence (meaning to a thing being real or not), one must answer the obvious question of how the thing happens to be on the list to the exclusion of things that are not. For example:
So, why is there something at all? Some would say that its because God created things. Then what created God?
Right. God creating reality doesn't explain the reality of god. It just pushes the problem to a less accessible level. If a god can always have been (a self-contradictory assertion given the typical definition of god), then so can reality without the god.
In the multiverse there may be a universe where there is nothing
If such a universe is, then it is something, even if it is empty of the sort of stuff that we find populating our universe.
AverageBozo
Posts: 502
Joined: May 11th, 2021, 11:20 am

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by AverageBozo »

Halc wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 11:11 am
AverageBozo wrote: August 16th, 2021, 10:28 am The question assumes that there is something and, by LEM, there cannot be nothing if there is something.
Something I would have said. The OP seems to ask a biased question rather than first questioning the bias.

I find no empirical difference to being or not being a member of the 'set of things that exist'. I find no meaning to membership in such a set, but I suppose it all boils down to one's definition of 'exists'. I find a relational definition to be more reasonable: The cup exists to us because both you and I share a mutual agreement about or experience of it. Not that I define existence in any kind of conscious terms. Just a shared relationship.
The truth is that there could be nothing rather than something.
If the list of things that exist was empty, then it would distinguish nothing from anything else, and be no different that everything being on the list. That renders existence (as a property) meaningless, which is how I find it.
That there is something rather than nothing is verified by the fact that we are (or at least I am) here to discuss this.
Then here exists to us (a relation), but it doesn't imply meaning to the existence of 'us' or 'here' (properties).

If there is a property of existence (meaning to a thing being real or not), one must answer the obvious question of how the thing happens to be on the list to the exclusion of things that are not. For example:
So, why is there something at all? Some would say that its because God created things. Then what created God?
Right. God creating reality doesn't explain the reality of god. It just pushes the problem to a less accessible level. If a god can always have been (a self-contradictory assertion given the typical definition of god), then so can reality without the god.
In the multiverse there may be a universe where there is nothing
If such a universe is, then it is something, even if it is empty of the sort of stuff that we find populating our universe.
BTW

I have since abandoned the position above (that a universe could exist that consists of nothing) because there cannot be only nothing under any circumstances.
User avatar
3017Metaphysician
Posts: 1621
Joined: July 9th, 2021, 8:59 am

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

Consul wrote: August 20th, 2021, 10:19 pm "The proof that something is has no other meaning than that it is not just something thought."
—Ludwig Feuerbach (Principles of the Philosophy of the Future, §25, 1843)

The "is" in this statement is synonymous with "exists", so to say that something exists is to say that there is more to it than its being an object of thought. What doesn't exist is nothing but an object of thought, and what exists isn't nothing but an object of thought.
Consul!

With respect to things that exist, can you reconcile which view is the correct one (thought itself, or independent existence--'objective existence' or otherwise) ?

A few things to consider (among many) in a possible response to that question:

1. Subjective Idealism: This form of idealism is "subjective" not because it denies that there is an objective reality, but because it asserts that this reality is completely dependent upon the minds of the subjects that perceive it.

2. Transcendental Idealism: ...which views the mind-independent world as existent but incognizable in itself.


The simpler answer, may be that there is both a subjective and objective existence (truth) to the nature of our Being (how humans perceive/cognize things in the world of objects, and means/method of cognition itself) from our understanding of reality. Meaning, we 'need' both, in order to completely cognize a some-thing that is being perceived (mind and matter) to make sense of it in every way. But in theory, this thing (this existent thing-in-itself), because we are unable to produce ex nihilo (hence understand it completely), remains a rather ubiquitous or to some, a rather infamous Kantian 'incognizable' thing-in-itself.

As a real-world (pun intended) implication(s), I go back to the structural engineer who's designing a tall building using abstract math to produce its structure. We can say that we completely understand the building's existence both by observing/perceiving its physical appearance, as well as by understanding its abstract mathematical formula. But unfortunately, we can't do the same with the Cosmos and all of the existing world of matter. But if somehow we could, this question (the foregoing) would be rendered obsolete and unnecessary, because we would obviously understand and know everything that is conceivable (logically possible) about the nature of that existence/existing thing. In other words, there would be no reason to ask such a redundant/superfluous question of that sort in the first place.

I think when one considers the age-old philosophical question of something v. nothing, you can't help but suppose its reality. What that reality consists of, makes it all the more intriguing... . And so, this adds fuel to the fire when one is asking about what is 'actually' something, and what is 'actuality' nothing. Or in this sense, the 'reality' of that existence/existing thing. Again, philosophically, if one wants to simply posit: there exists at least one true proposition, that's fine. But logically necessary truths get you only that which you put into it; it doesn't uncover the nature of its existence. And it that case, the logic/development/antiquity of language itself.

So I agree with your notion that there is more to 'something' than just the thought of it and/or the speaking of it...just wanted to draw some more distinctions there.
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
PoeticUniverse
Posts: 638
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 7:25 pm

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

sammygolddigger wrote: August 15th, 2021, 4:31 pm why is there something rather than nothing? I would like to hear your opions on this question.
Why Something?

Quantum states melt via uncertainty,
And this means that no quantum property
Can e’er be zero—a precise amount,
And so it is that motion can ne’er cease.

The Something

The quantum field is the bridge between ‘Nil’
And basic matter, and can ne’er be still;
Thus the ‘vacuum’ is the quietest field—
The closest approach to ‘Nothing’ that can be.

No ‘Null’ nor Matter Full

‘Nothing’ had no chance to be the hero,
Plus QM scrubs the idea of zero
Out of the physical world of being;
‘Zilch’ ne’er sleeps, but is e’er up to something.

A Mere Blip

But for the small quantum uncertainty,
The Cosmos sums to naught, its lunch being free:
No net electric charge; a weightless brick;
Minus-potential = plus-kinetic.
PoeticUniverse
Posts: 638
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 7:25 pm

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

The Free Loan Shark

An unusual track was found in a cloud chamber
That Carl Anderson was using
To watch the trajectories of cosmic rays
Streaming in from space.

The track was like that of an electron—
Except that it curved backwards
Under the influence of a magnetic field.
It was the positron, now used in the PET.

A particle and its antiparticle annihilate,
Giving back in the process the energy it took
To create them in the first place.

Do they live on borrowed time and energy,
A creation near ‘ex nihilo’ all over the universe?

Can they sneak out of the vacuum
So long as they snuck back in again
Before anyone has noticed?

“What is the point?”
Thought Richard Fenyman:
“Created and annihilated,
Annihilated and created—
What a waste of time.”

They come and go like dreams,
The lighter ones, like electrons,
Popping out more often.

They are the ghosts of the yet unborn.
The road from ‘nothing’ to something
Goes in both directions;
With enough energy they can become real.

The once melted vacuum fell and froze,
Gaining structure,
Such as when water becomes ice.

The so-called ‘vacuum’ is creative.
The field fluctuates this way and that;
On average the net energy is near ‘zero’.
PoeticUniverse
Posts: 638
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 7:25 pm

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

On Nil and Still, Ungenerated and Deathless, Null and Full, One and Zero

‘Nil’ can’t be, else there would be a lack of anything, which there isn’t. ‘It’ has no properties and so ‘it’ cannot even be meant; yet, as a non-existent absolute, ‘it’ serves as a boundary that can never be breached. One can never claim ‘it’, not even as little spacers between entities, nor as a lawless ‘realm’ in which anything goes, such as spontaneous happenings, for that capability would be something, not ‘Null’.

Thus, the basic something has to be so, as a must, without option, and always, as in ever, with no parts, which would have be more fundamental than it, and with no beginning, as unmakeable, since partless and not able to come from ‘Nothing’, and with no end, it being unbreakable, since partless. It might be called One or All, but this doesn’t mean Full.

The basic something can’t be still, as in not moving, or full, as 100% chock full, as completely dense, as in being so solid that there can’t be any movement. Full, or ONE, is yet another non-existent absolute only finding use as a boundary that cannot be breached. If there were stillness or fullness, then not anything would have happened.

There is a lightness of being, then, for the universe is a near zero-sum balance of opposites; so now we have to look in the direction of the slight, the little, and very much close to ‘Nothing’.

There is the quantum fluctuation and the zero-point energy that isn’t zero.
Movement, and thus change, is continual, and this begets all that goes on.
PoeticUniverse
Posts: 638
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 7:25 pm

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

The Higgs field gives a heft (mass) to other fields' quanta. Curiously, the Higgs field's 'at rest' mode is not like that of other fields jiggling about a zero-point; its energy level is always higher. Without mass, not anything would go on usefully in the universe.

'Nothing' is dead; long live the near nothing!
PoeticUniverse
Posts: 638
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 7:25 pm

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

Image

[\yid]
PoeticUniverse
Posts: 638
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 7:25 pm

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

THE LIGHTNESS OF BEING

Does anyone wonder why such smallness
Is at the bottom of all that later gets writ larger?

Is it that there is some great power
Of flexibility in the really tiny elementals
That larger fundamentals could never possess?

Now, wait, isn’t size relative,
Such as many things are,
An atom possibly being an universe
Or or our universe really an atom,
As is repeatedly “discovered”
In late night dorm room discussions?

No, for the scale of size is absolute,
For the Planck size is near the limit
Of anything going inwardly small,
Of how tiny something can be;
Thus, tiny is indeed small,
Even minuscule, absolutely.

And, although, theoretically,
There is no limit to
How large a structure can be,
It may well before that collapse into itself.

Somehow,
The elementals being very tiny
Seems to be a key
To all that comes forth,
As we could see
That bigger, cloddier elemental things
Might have too much gravity, stability,
Or something else that would limit them
To do little more than accumulate [or not]
And make a black hole or whatever
Doesn’t really go anywhere
Into complex composites
Of recombination.

Now, before we run away with this thought,
It should also be, perhaps,
That it, it must be, as well,
That the emitting puffs of energy are small,
Thus, the sizes of the elemental particles are
Reflected in that which may have been a limit
Of what the vacuum energy could do.
User avatar
Psych-Philosopher
New Trial Member
Posts: 4
Joined: September 26th, 2021, 8:09 pm

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by Psych-Philosopher »

Many replies seem to be saying that because we exist there is no justification beyond that to why anything exists at all.

However, there is more to the question than that. Reality is based in chaos because at a fundamental level nothing can have a solid answer. There is something because the infinite chaos that is fundamental to reality creates finite substance. Within a chaotic reality order can exist without contradiction, it makes sense for things to make sense in places where nothing is supposed to make sense. Because true nothing is impossible, the next best nothing would be the void that is our infinite reality. Matter is finite in an infinite space which doesn't make sense when you ask how that is possible.

The answer is that something is an inevitable product to the chaos of an infinite space of nothing. Substance is a result of chaos.
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8268
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Psych-Philosopher wrote: September 26th, 2021, 8:41 pm Within a chaotic reality order can exist without contradiction...
That's an interesting, if apparently contradictory, statement. :) Would you care to elaborate on how order can exist within chaos, without contradiction?
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
PoeticUniverse
Posts: 638
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 7:25 pm

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

A-void

A void idea is of what is not there and so it must be avoided so as not to step into nowhere. The void that is not there is a true vacuum, emptiness, nothingness, nullity, blankness and a vacuity. It is, compared to what is there, a gap, cavity, chasm, abyss, gulf, pit, and a black hole. One must invalidate, annul, nullify, negate, quash, cancel, countermand, repeal, revoke, rescind, retract, withdraw, reverse, undo, and abolish the void idea, abrogating its existence, for it is not to be. One cannot really make so much ado about nothing.
Post Reply

Return to “Epistemology and Metaphysics”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021