How many illusions of Time are possible?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
3017Metaphysician
Posts: 1621
Joined: July 9th, 2021, 8:59 am

How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

Hello Philosophers!

I'm not sure whether this subject matter has been vetted before, but was thinking about some fun questions about the paradox(s) of Time:

1. When we travel from east coast to west, why don't you get to have back the lost time?
2. Is the Twin Paradox really a paradox, and can it be resolved?
3. What is considered 'present' time (how big of a slice of time represents ' the now' )?
4. Is Time itself a metaphysical feature or quality of existence, and/or reality?
5. Is time just a human calibration (clocks) of change?
6. Are unchanging truths like mathematical truths paradoxical vis-à-vis a contingent/determinate world of causation?
7. Add your own questions with logically possible solutions...

Here's just a little introduction to the 'unreality' of Time:

“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by Steve3007 »

1. When we travel from east coast to west, why don't you get to have back the lost time?
Because you haven't lost any time. You've just travelled to a part of the world where the sun is at a different position in the sky.
2. Is the Twin Paradox really a paradox, and can it be resolved?
No, it's just an illustration of a property of Nature that is described by General Relativity.
3. What is considered 'present' time (how big of a slice of time represents ' the now' )?
Depends on your purposes.
4. Is Time itself a metaphysical feature or quality of existence, and/or reality?
It's the thing that clocks measure. Alternatively: it's an abstraction of the real phenomenon of change.
5. Is time just a human calibration (clocks) of change?
Yes, roughly. I'd say it's a human abstraction of change.
6. Are unchanging truths like mathematical truths paradoxical vis-à-vis a contingent/determinate world of causation?
No.
7. Add your own questions with logically possible solutions...
Why is the past different from the future? Because of the statistical properties of large collections of particles that give rise to the second law of thermodynamics, leading to the curious conclusion that the arrow of time is a statistical phenomenon.
PoeticUniverse
Posts: 638
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 7:25 pm

Re: How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

3017Metaphysician wrote: September 22nd, 2021, 11:07 am 'unreality' of Time:
There are damning problems with the scheme of Presentism as a sequence of nows with the past not kept and the future not yet existing, the first problem being its unrelenting besiegement by Einstein’s relativity of simultaneity.

Second, the turning of a ‘now’ into the next ‘now’ sits on the thinnest knife edge imaginable, the previous ‘now’ wholly consumed in the making of the new ‘now’ all over the universe at once in a dynamical updating—the present now exhausting all reality. It’s not that the incredibly short Planck time couldn’t be the processing time, but… I don’t know; what do the readers think?

Third, what is going to exist or was existent, as the presentist must refer to as ‘to be’ or ‘has been’ is indicated as coming or going and is thus inherent in the totality of what is, and so Presentism has no true ‘nonexistence’ of the future and the past—which means that there is no contrast between a real future and an unreal future, for what is real or exists can have no opposite to form a contrast class.
User avatar
3017Metaphysician
Posts: 1621
Joined: July 9th, 2021, 8:59 am

Re: How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

I just thought of another one viz time and eternity:

What kind of time (temporal or atemporal) causes time to exist?

A couple example or interpretations of eternity:

For example, some philosophical examples of eternal time would be:

a) An unending stretch of time – everlastingness;

b) That which is entirely timeless; and

c) That which includes time but somehow also transcends it.

So let's use the example of mathematical truths. These are truths that are unchanging, much like the idea or concepts of eternity. And those kinds of truths describe ( and to some extent 'explain') the cosmos and/or physical and non-physical existence so effectively. Paradox?

Keep them coming!!
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
PoeticUniverse
Posts: 638
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 7:25 pm

Re: How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

We don't know the mode of time.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by Steve3007 »

3017Metaphysician wrote:So let's use the example of mathematical truths. These are truths that are unchanging, much like the idea or concepts of eternity. And those kinds of truths describe ( and to some extent 'explain') the cosmos and/or physical and non-physical existence so effectively. Paradox?
I'd say mathematical truths are true because we define them as such. So they're unchanging because we choose not to change them. We created them as abstractions of our observations of patterns in what we observe. Starting with positive integers as abstractions of the process of counting discrete objects and going from there. So, no I see no paradox. Mathematics is useful for describing our observations of the universe because we made it for that purpose.
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 6105
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by Belindi »

3017Metaphysician wrote: September 22nd, 2021, 11:07 am Hello Philosophers!

I'm not sure whether this subject matter has been vetted before, but was thinking about some fun questions about the paradox(s) of Time:

1. When we travel from east coast to west, why don't you get to have back the lost time?
2. Is the Twin Paradox really a paradox, and can it be resolved?
3. What is considered 'present' time (how big of a slice of time represents ' the now' )?
4. Is Time itself a metaphysical feature or quality of existence, and/or reality?
5. Is time just a human calibration (clocks) of change?
6. Are unchanging truths like mathematical truths paradoxical vis-à-vis a contingent/determinate world of causation?
7. Add your own questions with logically possible solutions...

Here's just a little introduction to the 'unreality' of Time:

1. If by "lost time" you mean past experience, this is because we live forwards, looking towards what we will be our experience. It is not God who creates, it's us, and all the other experiencers.

2.A question for physicists not metaphysicians.

3. Wittgenstein: the meaning of a word is its use. Metaphysically time does not exist.

4. Time is a constant feature of social reality, but not of metaphysical reality.

5. Within social reality, time is more than simply that which is measured by clocks, it's also a reification of our attitude towards how we live with the necessity of planning what to do next.

6. I am currently trying to get somebody here who knows about such things to discuss or enlighten me about acausal correlations. Personally I have faith that nature is an orderly affair having been influenced by Spinoza. NB Spinoza said Deus sive Natura is cause of itself and is the only being that is cause of itself.

My opinion in item 6. is inconsistent with my opinion in item 1.
I am still thinking about it.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by Steve3007 »

1. When we travel from east coast to west, why don't you get to have back the lost time?
Belindi wrote:1. If by "lost time" you mean past experience, this is because we live forwards, looking towards what we will be our experience. It is not God who creates, it's us, and all the other experiencers.
I assumed it to be a question about travelling from the east coast of the US to the west coast of the US. So I assumed it to be a question about moving between the time zones into which we divide the world due to the fact that it's a rotating sphere. Maybe I was wrong to assume that. If not (if I was right to assume that), I don't know why anybody would think that travelling like that involves "losing time" in any way that we wouldn't lose that time by staying in one place. Obviously, like most people, I tend to fiddle with my watch when I've moved between time zones like that. But fiddling with my watch doesn't constitute losing time. Not to me anyway! If I decided to move my watch 2 hours forward right now, I'd be very surprised if anyone concluded that I'd somehow lost 2 hours!

But maybe I was wrong and it was a question about Special and General Relativity, related to that experiment which involved flying an atomic clock around the world.
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 6105
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by Belindi »

Steve3007 wrote: September 23rd, 2021, 7:43 am
1. When we travel from east coast to west, why don't you get to have back the lost time?
Belindi wrote:1. If by "lost time" you mean past experience, this is because we live forwards, looking towards what we will be our experience. It is not God who creates, it's us, and all the other experiencers.
I assumed it to be a question about travelling from the east coast of the US to the west coast of the US. So I assumed it to be a question about moving between the time zones into which we divide the world due to the fact that it's a rotating sphere. Maybe I was wrong to assume that. If not (if I was right to assume that), I don't know why anybody would think that travelling like that involves "losing time" in any way that we wouldn't lose that time by staying in one place. Obviously, like most people, I tend to fiddle with my watch when I've moved between time zones like that. But fiddling with my watch doesn't constitute losing time. Not to me anyway! If I decided to move my watch 2 hours forward right now, I'd be very surprised if anyone concluded that I'd somehow lost 2 hours!

But maybe I was wrong and it was a question about Special and General Relativity, related to that experiment which involved flying an atomic clock around the world.

Steve, I thought of it as a question about psychology.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by Steve3007 »

Belindi wrote:Steve, I thought of it as a question about psychology.
OK. The psychological effects of moving between time zones? Maybe. I guess Meta can clear that up if he wants to.
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 6105
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by Belindi »

Steve3007 wrote: September 23rd, 2021, 7:50 am
Belindi wrote:Steve, I thought of it as a question about psychology.
OK. The psychological effects of moving between time zones? Maybe. I guess Meta can clear that up if he wants to.
I thought the question was psychological as in basic attitude of all creatures that have the will to stay alive by venturing into the unknown future. In order to do so the creatures need to tell the difference between what they have done and what they plan to do i.e. differentiating between past and present, as we say it.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by Steve3007 »

Belindi wrote:I thought the question was psychological as in basic attitude of all creatures that have the will to stay alive by venturing into the unknown future.
OK. So why do you think he mentioned travelling from the east to the west coast of the US? He could have just asked "Why don't you get to have back the lost time?", and then maybe read some Proust! :D
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by Steve3007 »

(I had in mind there "In Search of Lost Time" - the classic example of the book we've all got on our bookshelves but none of us have read. Apart from the bit about the madeleines.)
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 6105
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by Belindi »

Steve3007 wrote: September 23rd, 2021, 8:00 am
Belindi wrote:I thought the question was psychological as in basic attitude of all creatures that have the will to stay alive by venturing into the unknown future.
OK. So why do you think he mentioned travelling from the east to the west coast of the US? He could have just asked "Why don't you get to have back the lost time?", and then maybe read some Proust! :D
Too much nostalgia is stupefying as I know from experience :D !

Travelling from east to west in America is sort of an iconic image of time passing, I guess. It has connotations of Americans for two centuries pressing onward and outward from known times into unknown times
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: How many illusions of Time are possible?

Post by Steve3007 »

Belindi wrote:Travelling from east to west in America is sort of an iconic image of time passing, I guess. It has connotations of Americans for two centuries pressing onward and outward from known times into unknown times
Yes, ok, I see that. I hadn't thought of it as metaphorically as that!

"Westward the wagons, across the sands of time to..." as the philosophical cowboy stranger in "The Big Lebowski" said.
Post Reply

Return to “Epistemology and Metaphysics”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021