Why is Our Universe the Way it is?

[PoeticUniverse]

(milestones…)

Meaning and Purpose:

The information content of Everything is the same as that of 'Nothing': zero.

The Eternal has to be everything,
All paths contained within, as the default;
It can’t have inputs, with no beginning;
Still, what chose the song our universe sings?

All universes can spring forth, in turn,
Most inert or not going far enough,
With some reaching life after a long time,
Such as ours, precarious as Earth life is.

The Eternal is as everything done,
As in Babel’s Library of all books,
As all possible paths, potentially,
The same information as zero’s none.

The Creation of the Universe:

[3017Metaphysician]

"The Eternal Existence". What does that mean? In other words, is there a definition standard for that?

It's the basis of all, the one, what underlies, the fundamental, a permeant existent thing, absolute truth, ultimate reality, etc.

PU!

RE: Why is our universe the Way it is?

With regard to your OP, are you trying to say the universe is the way it is because there is an "Eternal Existence"?

I'm struggling to find meaning in that. For instance, I asked what definition of "The Eternal Existence" was, and you said:"... a permeant existent thing, absolute truth, ultimate reality...".

PU, what are you trying to say? For example, what is absolute truth; ultimate reality, permeant existing things, etc. as it relates to why the Universe is the way it is?

Sorry, but some of us are struggling with what you are trying to argue for... .

[PoeticUniverse]

With regard to your OP, are you trying to say the universe is the way it is because there is an "Eternal Existence"?

Yes, the Big Bang event bangs from something, not out of the impossible 'Nothing'.

[Steve3007]

Yes, the Big Bang event bangs from something, not out of the impossible 'Nothing'.

Why is it impossible for something to come from nothing? (There have been some long arguments about this here before.)

[PoeticUniverse]

Why is it impossible for something to come from nothing? (There have been some long arguments about this here before.)

That would be an ability, not 'Nothing'.

[Steve3007]

That would be an ability, not 'Nothing'.

I don't understand. Let me put it another way. Why is it impossible for the big bang to happen with nothing preceding it?

[PoeticUniverse]

That would be an ability, not 'Nothing'.

I don't understand. Let me put it another way. Why is it impossible for the big bang to happen with nothing preceding it?

A happening like that would still have to have the possibility for it to happen, and in some arena, which would again be an eternal something preceding.

[PoeticUniverse]

(milestone)

"a conclusion is drawn from Heisenberg's principle of uncertainty that a "vacuum" (in the sense of something devoid of any substrate or any physical properties) is impossible since its existence would allow exact establishing of the value of the canonically joined values, e.g., position and velocity.

The quantum field theory (and attempts at creating of the quantum theory of gravitation made on these grounds) interpret vacuum not as a nothingness, but as an extremely active arena which through "fluctuation of a vacuum" constantly creates virtual particles of all possible kinds.

Vacuum in this interpretation has not much in common with the philosophical concept of "nothingness", but constitutes a kind of active time and space endowed with various physical properties (which are usually divided into topological, metrical and properties of symmetry). On the other hand, the dynamic character of the vacuum (time and space) signifies that it is also apportioned with energy.

Conceptions of the creation of the Universe out of "vaccum" assume that it arises in the process of "fluctuation of vacuum", and therefore it is created not out of nothing, but out of a certain physical reality, poor in properties and called a "vacuum"."

[PoeticUniverse]

Emptiness

The universe began from not much
And at its end it won’t be much.

But in between there are lots
Of temporary plots diverse
In space and on Earth
From all the paths of Everything.

Yet, the information content
Of Everything spent
Is the same as Nothing’s extent.

…

Over Man came the Triumph of Love
But Chastity gave it quite a shove;

However, Death can all conquer,
But this was not the final word…

For Time happily reigned over all,
Or so it thought—as its thrall,

But, Divinity vanquished its trend;
Yet, still, this was not the end…

For, as ever, the basis was left to sting,
Since Nothing overwhelms everything.

[Steve3007]

That would be an ability, not 'Nothing'.

I don't understand. Let me put it another way. Why is it impossible for the big bang to happen with nothing preceding it?

A happening like that would still have to have the possibility for it to happen, and in some arena, which would again be an eternal something preceding.

OK. Your view, then, seems to be similar to the one expressed by RJG et al in topics about similar things. My view is that it is essentially a reification fallacy. As I've said, I view the dimension of time as an abstraction from individual instances of change. We see it as the abstraction known as a dimension for similar reasons to why we see space as a dimension. It's a useful model. It's not an arena in which objects move about and undergo changes, which would exist even if those objects didn't exist. It's created to model the behaviour of those objects. The idea that that arena is a container for the objects, with the same ontological status as the objects, is the fallacy in my view.

The analogy I've used before is with using integer numbers to count discrete objects, like apples. The integer numbers were created as a result of the existence of the discrete objects. To treat those numbers as having the same ontological status as the apples would result in absurdities like: "Numbers are used to count apples. There are an infinite number of numbers. Therefore there are an infinite number of apples."

[3017Metaphysician]

With regard to your OP, are you trying to say the universe is the way it is because there is an "Eternal Existence"?

Yes, the Big Bang event bangs from something, not out of the impossible 'Nothing'.

P-AH-U!

Interesting. So are suggesting there was always something? Is that like the concept of eternity then? How exciting!!!!

Let's see, what are the implications, I wonder. Okay, thinking out-loud here's one. Did something outside of time cause time itself?

[PoeticUniverse]

It's not an arena in which objects move about and undergo changes, which would exist even if those objects didn't exist. It's created to model the behaviour of those objects. The idea that that arena is a container for the objects, with the same ontological status as the objects, is the fallacy in my view.

True, for Newton's idea of absolute space got crushed by Einstein. The quantum fields would be all atop one another, constituting one big overall field. There is no need for space, anyway, as the fields are continuous, they in their extension serving as 'space' instead of the old Newton space.

[PoeticUniverse]

Interesting. So are suggesting there was always something? Is that like the concept of eternity then? How exciting!!!!

Yes, glad you have finally realized this.

Let's see, what are the implications, I wonder. Okay, thinking out-loud here's one. Did something outside of time cause time itself?

We don't know the mode of time, but if time is change and 'Stillness' can't be, then… we get the constant jittering and fluctuation of the quantum fields.

[PoeticUniverse]

(milestones)

Since all the elementary entities of a type are identical, this means that there is a way for them to be made like that, which would be the quantum field excitation energy values that can be stable enough to persist and and last a while as temporaries due to pattern necessitated by the sums of the harmonic oscillators as the quantum fields. Other in between values would not suffice for stability. It doesn't matter, then, how, say, all the electrons are arranged, for they are all the same and any one. will do. An electron in an atom can only quantum jump to discrete levels.

So, as in my new thread, all the physical elementaries went on through purely physical processes to form what we have now in the present.

[3017Metaphysician]

Interesting. So are suggesting there was always something? Is that like the concept of eternity then? How exciting!!!!

Yes, glad you have finally realized this.

Let's see, what are the implications, I wonder. Okay, thinking out-loud here's one. Did something outside of time cause time itself?

We don't know the mode of time, but if time is change and 'Stillness' can't be, then… we get the constant jittering and fluctuation of the quantum fields.

Awesome, what causes the quantum fields?