RJG wrote:Steve, I think our hands are tied on this one. We humans have no choice but to accept causation (i.e. that all events are caused; strict determinism) as a fundamental, undeniable truth. We have no way to rationally deny it.
The reason I say this is because we can't "make sense" of anything without relying on causation. Our sense making abilities (i.e. our reasoning; our logic (deductive and inductive)) all rely on causal connections. To put it more simply, our means of making sense would not make sense if we did not accept causation as true. Therefore, if we do not accept causation as a fundamental truth, then we could have no way to rationally refute/deny it (or make sense in refuting/denying it).
Since it is impossible to rationally deny causation (because we would have to affirm it in order to deny it), we humans therefore have no choice in the matter. We can only affirm causation, as we have no rational means to deny it!
P-chaser, it is not necessarily that I (or we humans) claim that it "must be true", it is that we humans have no rational means to deny its truth.Pattern-chaser wrote:I see your point(s). But I think it is reasonable to paraphrase your argument as "Causality must be true because humans cannot make sense of the universe if it is not"?
We humans are constrained (limited) to only make sense of that which is rational; that which is "causally" connected. We humans refer to those seemingly non-rational events (i.e., those appearing not-causally connected events) as "magic", or "random" (non-caused) events (...note: both "magic" and "random" are non-rational; non-sensical to our human sense-making abilities).
Once we crack open the door to accept the possibility of "magic" (or a "random" event) as a true/real event, then we have lost all means to "make sense" - in other words, we have lost the means to maintain rationality. For if we consider "non-rational events as rational" (e.g. if we accept ~X=X), then NOTHING no longer makes sense; and anything and everything would then be possible.
So, we humans either can continue to try to "make sense" of this universe/reality (e.g., by maintaining rationality; maintaining the impossibility of ~X=X), or we can succumb to the acceptance that anything and everything (including true "magic" and "randomness") is possible. So, if we wish to continue trying to "make sense" of reality, then we need to keep that door closed.
Well-said P-chaser, I can't disagree. But unfortunately for us humans, our hands are tied. We have no other 'rational' means of denying rationality (causality).Pattern-chaser wrote:That causality is something-close-to unavoidable for us, in practice, I accept.
That it is therefore true/correct, I find difficult to accept.
I also find it difficult to accept that all events have causes, although, equally, I would not be happy to assert that causality is incorrect.
Life, for humans, and maybe other creatures too, is uncertain, filled with things we believe, but which we cannot confirm. This uncertainty confers on almost everything we 'know' an element of, er, uncertainty, and maybe that is one of the most fundamental truths that life, the universe and everything has to offer us?
...and any 'irrational' means of denying causality is not very convincing (to most of us)!