Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
SteveKlinko
Posts: 710
Joined: November 19th, 2021, 11:43 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by SteveKlinko »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 9:03 am
SteveKlinko wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 8:21 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 22nd, 2021, 1:01 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 22nd, 2021, 8:33 am
Science is not a Problem, but it does not know what to do with Conscious Experience. There is a huge Explanatory Gap between Neural Activity and Conscious Experience that needs to be Explained.
Why does it need explaining, when we are masters at consiousness?
We are not Masters of anything. Until we know what We are and what Conscious Experience is we are just Hackers. Imagine what we might be capable of if we could Know.
You are thinking backwards. Consciousness is primary. We know all there is to know about it. The problem is not trying to understand consciousness from matter but undertanding matter from consicousness.
One thing is for sure. All consciousness is embodied in neural matter.
All I can say is, I don't know what my Conscious Experiences are, and I don't know even what I am. You know everything and I know nothing. We are at an Impasse.
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Sculptor1
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Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by Sculptor1 »

SteveKlinko wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 4:11 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 9:03 am
SteveKlinko wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 8:21 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 22nd, 2021, 1:01 pm

Why does it need explaining, when we are masters at consiousness?
We are not Masters of anything. Until we know what We are and what Conscious Experience is we are just Hackers. Imagine what we might be capable of if we could Know.
You are thinking backwards. Consciousness is primary. We know all there is to know about it. The problem is not trying to understand consciousness from matter but undertanding matter from consicousness.
One thing is for sure. All consciousness is embodied in neural matter.
All I can say is, I don't know what my Conscious Experiences are,
Yes you do. ALL your experiences are conswcious ones. So much so that you are guilty of tautology.
and I don't know even what I am. You know everything and I know nothing. We are at an Impasse.
Wrong. You are what you are. Live with that! Since the dawn of human history we have been trying to understand matter from out consiousness.
Your sense of self is all you have; all you can be sure of. We learn from our lived experience that there is an outside world
SteveKlinko
Posts: 710
Joined: November 19th, 2021, 11:43 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by SteveKlinko »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 7:00 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 4:11 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 9:03 am
SteveKlinko wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 8:21 am
We are not Masters of anything. Until we know what We are and what Conscious Experience is we are just Hackers. Imagine what we might be capable of if we could Know.
You are thinking backwards. Consciousness is primary. We know all there is to know about it. The problem is not trying to understand consciousness from matter but undertanding matter from consicousness.
One thing is for sure. All consciousness is embodied in neural matter.
All I can say is, I don't know what my Conscious Experiences are,
Yes you do. ALL your experiences are conswcious ones. So much so that you are guilty of tautology.
and I don't know even what I am. You know everything and I know nothing. We are at an Impasse.
Wrong. You are what you are. Live with that! Since the dawn of human history we have been trying to understand matter from out consiousness.
Your sense of self is all you have; all you can be sure of. We learn from our lived experience that there is an outside world
Looks like an Impasse to me.
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7091
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by Sculptor1 »

SteveKlinko wrote: December 24th, 2021, 10:13 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 7:00 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 4:11 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 9:03 am
You are thinking backwards. Consciousness is primary. We know all there is to know about it. The problem is not trying to understand consciousness from matter but undertanding matter from consicousness.
One thing is for sure. All consciousness is embodied in neural matter.
All I can say is, I don't know what my Conscious Experiences are,
Yes you do. ALL your experiences are conswcious ones. So much so that you are guilty of tautology.
and I don't know even what I am. You know everything and I know nothing. We are at an Impasse.
Wrong. You are what you are. Live with that! Since the dawn of human history we have been trying to understand matter from out consiousness.
Your sense of self is all you have; all you can be sure of. We learn from our lived experience that there is an outside world
Looks like an Impasse to me.
Maybe to you.
I find it odd that you seem to be conscious of the fact of your dissatisfation with science which is the only thing that has provided any true insights into how our consciousness can be understood as a part of the outside world of your conscious experience.
You are happy to express your dissatisfaction with no viable alternative.
Last edited by Sculptor1 on December 24th, 2021, 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
SteveKlinko
Posts: 710
Joined: November 19th, 2021, 11:43 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by SteveKlinko »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 24th, 2021, 10:14 am
SteveKlinko wrote: December 24th, 2021, 10:13 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 7:00 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 4:11 pm
All I can say is, I don't know what my Conscious Experiences are,
Yes you do. ALL your experiences are conswcious ones. So much so that you are guilty of tautology.
and I don't know even what I am. You know everything and I know nothing. We are at an Impasse.
Wrong. You are what you are. Live with that! Since the dawn of human history we have been trying to understand matter from out consiousness.
Your sense of self is all you have; all you can be sure of. We learn from our lived experience that there is an outside world
Looks like an Impasse to me.
Maybe to you.
I find it odd that you seem to be conscious of the fact of your dissatisfation with science which is the only thing that has provided any true insights into how our consciousness can be understood as a part of the outside world of your conscious experience.
You are happy to express your dissatisfaction with no viable alternative.
The Inter Mind Model and Connectism are at least a Perspective alternative to the Physicalist approach which only allows research into the Neurons. It is mind boggling to me that you cannot recognize that Science has provided Zero Insight into Conscious Experience and Consciousness itself. Science only talks about the Neural Activity and cannot link any Neural Activity with any Chain of Logic to any Conscious Experience. All we know is that Neural Activity happens and then a Conscious Experience can happen. You think that's some kind of an Explanation. But that's not an Explanation. There is a huge Explanatory Gap there. So, we are at an Impasse.
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7091
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by Sculptor1 »

SteveKlinko wrote: December 25th, 2021, 11:02 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 24th, 2021, 10:14 am
SteveKlinko wrote: December 24th, 2021, 10:13 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 23rd, 2021, 7:00 pm
Yes you do. ALL your experiences are conswcious ones. So much so that you are guilty of tautology.

Wrong. You are what you are. Live with that! Since the dawn of human history we have been trying to understand matter from out consiousness.
Your sense of self is all you have; all you can be sure of. We learn from our lived experience that there is an outside world
Looks like an Impasse to me.
Maybe to you.
I find it odd that you seem to be conscious of the fact of your dissatisfation with science which is the only thing that has provided any true insights into how our consciousness can be understood as a part of the outside world of your conscious experience.
You are happy to express your dissatisfaction with no viable alternative.
The Inter Mind Model and Connectism are at least a Perspective alternative to the Physicalist approach which only allows research into the Neurons. It is mind boggling to me that you cannot recognize that Science has provided Zero Insight into Conscious Experience and Consciousness itself. Science only talks about the Neural Activity and cannot link any Neural Activity with any Chain of Logic to any Conscious Experience. All we know is that Neural Activity happens and then a Conscious Experience can happen. You think that's some kind of an Explanation. But that's not an Explanation. There is a huge Explanatory Gap there. So, we are at an Impasse.
The IMM and connectism are not alternatives to anything. All they seem to be is abstractions without material cause.
You might as well talk about spirits and ghosts.
You might not be open to the massive amounts of insights provided by science, but it is the only area were clear sets of results have been found. And until there is an alternative I am pretty sure that this method shall continue to be persued.
Since you have nothing else you will have to remain unsatisfied whilst science gets on with the job it has been doing very successfully for a long time.
SteveKlinko
Posts: 710
Joined: November 19th, 2021, 11:43 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by SteveKlinko »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 25th, 2021, 2:45 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 25th, 2021, 11:02 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 24th, 2021, 10:14 am
SteveKlinko wrote: December 24th, 2021, 10:13 am
Looks like an Impasse to me.
Maybe to you.
I find it odd that you seem to be conscious of the fact of your dissatisfation with science which is the only thing that has provided any true insights into how our consciousness can be understood as a part of the outside world of your conscious experience.
You are happy to express your dissatisfaction with no viable alternative.
The Inter Mind Model and Connectism are at least a Perspective alternative to the Physicalist approach which only allows research into the Neurons. It is mind boggling to me that you cannot recognize that Science has provided Zero Insight into Conscious Experience and Consciousness itself. Science only talks about the Neural Activity and cannot link any Neural Activity with any Chain of Logic to any Conscious Experience. All we know is that Neural Activity happens and then a Conscious Experience can happen. You think that's some kind of an Explanation. But that's not an Explanation. There is a huge Explanatory Gap there. So, we are at an Impasse.
The IMM and connectism are not alternatives to anything. All they seem to be is abstractions without material cause.
You might as well talk about spirits and ghosts.
You might not be open to the massive amounts of insights provided by science, but it is the only area were clear sets of results have been found. And until there is an alternative I am pretty sure that this method shall continue to be persued.
Since you have nothing else you will have to remain unsatisfied whilst science gets on with the job it has been doing very successfully for a long time.
I am trying to emphasize the difference between understanding the Brain and understanding Conscious Experience. Science has made huge progress in understanding the Brain, but has made identically Zero progress in understanding Conscious Experience. This is an Embarrassment for Science. If Conscious Experience were in the Brain, I would expect at least some Clue or incremental understanding of what Conscious Experience is. There is only Silence and Diversionary tactics trying to make us look away from the Conscious Experience and simply Believe that it is all in the Brain with no Chain of Logic. I'm not say I know it isn't in the Brain but if it is in the Brain then after all this study and research for the past hundred years, there should be more than Zero progress. I just offer an alternative Perspective on the problem.
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7091
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by Sculptor1 »

SteveKlinko wrote: December 25th, 2021, 3:45 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: December 25th, 2021, 2:45 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 25th, 2021, 11:02 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 24th, 2021, 10:14 am
Maybe to you.
I find it odd that you seem to be conscious of the fact of your dissatisfation with science which is the only thing that has provided any true insights into how our consciousness can be understood as a part of the outside world of your conscious experience.
You are happy to express your dissatisfaction with no viable alternative.
The Inter Mind Model and Connectism are at least a Perspective alternative to the Physicalist approach which only allows research into the Neurons. It is mind boggling to me that you cannot recognize that Science has provided Zero Insight into Conscious Experience and Consciousness itself. Science only talks about the Neural Activity and cannot link any Neural Activity with any Chain of Logic to any Conscious Experience. All we know is that Neural Activity happens and then a Conscious Experience can happen. You think that's some kind of an Explanation. But that's not an Explanation. There is a huge Explanatory Gap there. So, we are at an Impasse.
The IMM and connectism are not alternatives to anything. All they seem to be is abstractions without material cause.
You might as well talk about spirits and ghosts.
You might not be open to the massive amounts of insights provided by science, but it is the only area were clear sets of results have been found. And until there is an alternative I am pretty sure that this method shall continue to be persued.
Since you have nothing else you will have to remain unsatisfied whilst science gets on with the job it has been doing very successfully for a long time.
I am trying to emphasize the difference between understanding the Brain and understanding Conscious Experience. Science has made huge progress in understanding the Brain, but has made identically Zero progress in understanding Conscious Experience. This is an Embarrassment for Science.
Please cite!
If Conscious Experience were in the Brain, I would expect at least some Clue or incremental understanding of what Conscious Experience is. There is only Silence and Diversionary tactics trying to make us look away from the Conscious Experience and simply Believe that it is all in the Brain with no Chain of Logic. I'm not say I know it isn't in the Brain but if it is in the Brain then after all this study and research for the past hundred years, there should be more than Zero progress. I just offer an alternative Perspective on the problem.
I cannot see how this is an alternative. I think you have stated what you thik is a problem but you have not said anything to address the problem. I suggest you know all you can already about consciousness, as we all do as it is primary. You do not seem satisfied with that.
SteveKlinko
Posts: 710
Joined: November 19th, 2021, 11:43 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by SteveKlinko »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 25th, 2021, 4:59 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 25th, 2021, 3:45 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: December 25th, 2021, 2:45 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 25th, 2021, 11:02 am
The Inter Mind Model and Connectism are at least a Perspective alternative to the Physicalist approach which only allows research into the Neurons. It is mind boggling to me that you cannot recognize that Science has provided Zero Insight into Conscious Experience and Consciousness itself. Science only talks about the Neural Activity and cannot link any Neural Activity with any Chain of Logic to any Conscious Experience. All we know is that Neural Activity happens and then a Conscious Experience can happen. You think that's some kind of an Explanation. But that's not an Explanation. There is a huge Explanatory Gap there. So, we are at an Impasse.
The IMM and connectism are not alternatives to anything. All they seem to be is abstractions without material cause.
You might as well talk about spirits and ghosts.
You might not be open to the massive amounts of insights provided by science, but it is the only area were clear sets of results have been found. And until there is an alternative I am pretty sure that this method shall continue to be persued.
Since you have nothing else you will have to remain unsatisfied whilst science gets on with the job it has been doing very successfully for a long time.
I am trying to emphasize the difference between understanding the Brain and understanding Conscious Experience. Science has made huge progress in understanding the Brain, but has made identically Zero progress in understanding Conscious Experience. This is an Embarrassment for Science.
Please cite!
If Conscious Experience were in the Brain, I would expect at least some Clue or incremental understanding of what Conscious Experience is. There is only Silence and Diversionary tactics trying to make us look away from the Conscious Experience and simply Believe that it is all in the Brain with no Chain of Logic. I'm not say I know it isn't in the Brain but if it is in the Brain then after all this study and research for the past hundred years, there should be more than Zero progress. I just offer an alternative Perspective on the problem.
I cannot see how this is an alternative. I think you have stated what you thik is a problem but you have not said anything to address the problem. I suggest you know all you can already about consciousness, as we all do as it is primary. You do not seem satisfied with that.
Many Physicalists/Materialists believe that the mere statement that "Conscious Experience is in the Neurons" constitutes some kind of Explanation for Conscious Experience. Well, that is not an Explanation. That is a Speculation and a Belief. Nobody has an Explanation for Conscious Experience. The Inter Mind Model is not even supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Framework for Conscious Experience. The Connection Perspective is also not supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Perspective change. It postulates that Conscious Experience must exist in a Conscious Mind concept which exists in a separate Conscious Space concept that is separate from the Physical Mind (Brain), which is in Physical Space.
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7091
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by Sculptor1 »

SteveKlinko wrote: December 26th, 2021, 9:14 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 25th, 2021, 4:59 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 25th, 2021, 3:45 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: December 25th, 2021, 2:45 pm

The IMM and connectism are not alternatives to anything. All they seem to be is abstractions without material cause.
You might as well talk about spirits and ghosts.
You might not be open to the massive amounts of insights provided by science, but it is the only area were clear sets of results have been found. And until there is an alternative I am pretty sure that this method shall continue to be persued.
Since you have nothing else you will have to remain unsatisfied whilst science gets on with the job it has been doing very successfully for a long time.
I am trying to emphasize the difference between understanding the Brain and understanding Conscious Experience. Science has made huge progress in understanding the Brain, but has made identically Zero progress in understanding Conscious Experience. This is an Embarrassment for Science.
Please cite!
If Conscious Experience were in the Brain, I would expect at least some Clue or incremental understanding of what Conscious Experience is. There is only Silence and Diversionary tactics trying to make us look away from the Conscious Experience and simply Believe that it is all in the Brain with no Chain of Logic. I'm not say I know it isn't in the Brain but if it is in the Brain then after all this study and research for the past hundred years, there should be more than Zero progress. I just offer an alternative Perspective on the problem.
I cannot see how this is an alternative. I think you have stated what you thik is a problem but you have not said anything to address the problem. I suggest you know all you can already about consciousness, as we all do as it is primary. You do not seem satisfied with that.
Many Physicalists/Materialists believe that the mere statement that "Conscious Experience is in the Neurons" constitutes some kind of Explanation for Conscious Experience. Well, that is not an Explanation. That is a Speculation and a Belief. Nobody has an Explanation for Conscious Experience. The Inter Mind Model is not even supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Framework for Conscious Experience. The Connection Perspective is also not supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Perspective change. It postulates that Conscious Experience must exist in a Conscious Mind concept which exists in a separate Conscious Space concept that is separate from the Physical Mind (Brain), which is in Physical Space.
Please cite!
SteveKlinko
Posts: 710
Joined: November 19th, 2021, 11:43 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by SteveKlinko »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 26th, 2021, 1:37 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 26th, 2021, 9:14 am Many Physicalists/Materialists believe that the mere statement that "Conscious Experience is in the Neurons" constitutes some kind of Explanation for Conscious Experience. Well, that is not an Explanation. That is a Speculation and a Belief. Nobody has an Explanation for Conscious Experience. The Inter Mind Model is not even supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Framework for Conscious Experience. The Connection Perspective is also not supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Perspective change. It postulates that Conscious Experience must exist in a Conscious Mind concept which exists in a separate Conscious Space concept that is separate from the Physical Mind (Brain), which is in Physical Space.
Please cite!
See https://TheInterMind.com
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7091
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by Sculptor1 »

SteveKlinko wrote: December 27th, 2021, 8:28 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 26th, 2021, 1:37 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 26th, 2021, 9:14 am Many Physicalists/Materialists believe that the mere statement that "Conscious Experience is in the Neurons" constitutes some kind of Explanation for Conscious Experience. Well, that is not an Explanation. That is a Speculation and a Belief. Nobody has an Explanation for Conscious Experience. The Inter Mind Model is not even supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Framework for Conscious Experience. The Connection Perspective is also not supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Perspective change. It postulates that Conscious Experience must exist in a Conscious Mind concept which exists in a separate Conscious Space concept that is separate from the Physical Mind (Brain), which is in Physical Space.
Please cite!
See***TheInterMind*com
You might want to do better than that. I do not think presenting a jerry-rigged web page that you cobbled together nearly ten years ago, and has ZERO academic references is a worthy citation.
SteveKlinko
Posts: 710
Joined: November 19th, 2021, 11:43 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by SteveKlinko »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 27th, 2021, 4:01 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 27th, 2021, 8:28 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 26th, 2021, 1:37 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 26th, 2021, 9:14 am Many Physicalists/Materialists believe that the mere statement that "Conscious Experience is in the Neurons" constitutes some kind of Explanation for Conscious Experience. Well, that is not an Explanation. That is a Speculation and a Belief. Nobody has an Explanation for Conscious Experience. The Inter Mind Model is not even supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Framework for Conscious Experience. The Connection Perspective is also not supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Perspective change. It postulates that Conscious Experience must exist in a Conscious Mind concept which exists in a separate Conscious Space concept that is separate from the Physical Mind (Brain), which is in Physical Space.
Please cite!
See***TheInterMind*com
You might want to do better than that. I do not think presenting a jerry-rigged web page that you cobbled together nearly ten years ago, and has ZERO academic references is a worthy citation.
The website contains my thoughts. Take it or leave it, and I guess I know what your choice will be. Bye to you.
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7091
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by Sculptor1 »

SteveKlinko wrote: December 28th, 2021, 8:15 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 27th, 2021, 4:01 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 27th, 2021, 8:28 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 26th, 2021, 1:37 pm

Please cite!
See***TheInterMind*com
You might want to do better than that. I do not think presenting a jerry-rigged web page that you cobbled together nearly ten years ago, and has ZERO academic references is a worthy citation.
The website contains my thoughts. Take it or leave it, and I guess I know what your choice will be. Bye to you.
Indeed. I might was well read an astrology book - at least it has evidence.
SteveKlinko
Posts: 710
Joined: November 19th, 2021, 11:43 am

Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective

Post by SteveKlinko »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 28th, 2021, 11:21 am
SteveKlinko wrote: December 28th, 2021, 8:15 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 27th, 2021, 4:01 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: December 27th, 2021, 8:28 am
See***TheInterMind*com
You might want to do better than that. I do not think presenting a jerry-rigged web page that you cobbled together nearly ten years ago, and has ZERO academic references is a worthy citation.
The website contains my thoughts. Take it or leave it, and I guess I know what your choice will be. Bye to you.
Indeed. I might was well read an astrology book - at least it has evidence.
Now that explains why you don't understand.
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