All I can say is, I don't know what my Conscious Experiences are, and I don't know even what I am. You know everything and I know nothing. We are at an Impasse.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 9:03 amYou are thinking backwards. Consciousness is primary. We know all there is to know about it. The problem is not trying to understand consciousness from matter but undertanding matter from consicousness.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 8:21 amWe are not Masters of anything. Until we know what We are and what Conscious Experience is we are just Hackers. Imagine what we might be capable of if we could Know.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2021, 1:01 pmWhy does it need explaining, when we are masters at consiousness?SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2021, 8:33 am
Science is not a Problem, but it does not know what to do with Conscious Experience. There is a huge Explanatory Gap between Neural Activity and Conscious Experience that needs to be Explained.
One thing is for sure. All consciousness is embodied in neural matter.
Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
Yes you do. ALL your experiences are conswcious ones. So much so that you are guilty of tautology.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 4:11 pmAll I can say is, I don't know what my Conscious Experiences are,Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 9:03 amYou are thinking backwards. Consciousness is primary. We know all there is to know about it. The problem is not trying to understand consciousness from matter but undertanding matter from consicousness.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 8:21 amWe are not Masters of anything. Until we know what We are and what Conscious Experience is we are just Hackers. Imagine what we might be capable of if we could Know.
One thing is for sure. All consciousness is embodied in neural matter.
Wrong. You are what you are. Live with that! Since the dawn of human history we have been trying to understand matter from out consiousness.and I don't know even what I am. You know everything and I know nothing. We are at an Impasse.
Your sense of self is all you have; all you can be sure of. We learn from our lived experience that there is an outside world
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
Looks like an Impasse to me.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 7:00 pmYes you do. ALL your experiences are conswcious ones. So much so that you are guilty of tautology.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 4:11 pmAll I can say is, I don't know what my Conscious Experiences are,Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 9:03 amYou are thinking backwards. Consciousness is primary. We know all there is to know about it. The problem is not trying to understand consciousness from matter but undertanding matter from consicousness.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 8:21 am
We are not Masters of anything. Until we know what We are and what Conscious Experience is we are just Hackers. Imagine what we might be capable of if we could Know.
One thing is for sure. All consciousness is embodied in neural matter.Wrong. You are what you are. Live with that! Since the dawn of human history we have been trying to understand matter from out consiousness.and I don't know even what I am. You know everything and I know nothing. We are at an Impasse.
Your sense of self is all you have; all you can be sure of. We learn from our lived experience that there is an outside world
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
Maybe to you.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 24th, 2021, 10:13 amLooks like an Impasse to me.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 7:00 pmYes you do. ALL your experiences are conswcious ones. So much so that you are guilty of tautology.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 4:11 pmAll I can say is, I don't know what my Conscious Experiences are,Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 9:03 am
You are thinking backwards. Consciousness is primary. We know all there is to know about it. The problem is not trying to understand consciousness from matter but undertanding matter from consicousness.
One thing is for sure. All consciousness is embodied in neural matter.Wrong. You are what you are. Live with that! Since the dawn of human history we have been trying to understand matter from out consiousness.and I don't know even what I am. You know everything and I know nothing. We are at an Impasse.
Your sense of self is all you have; all you can be sure of. We learn from our lived experience that there is an outside world
I find it odd that you seem to be conscious of the fact of your dissatisfation with science which is the only thing that has provided any true insights into how our consciousness can be understood as a part of the outside world of your conscious experience.
You are happy to express your dissatisfaction with no viable alternative.
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
The Inter Mind Model and Connectism are at least a Perspective alternative to the Physicalist approach which only allows research into the Neurons. It is mind boggling to me that you cannot recognize that Science has provided Zero Insight into Conscious Experience and Consciousness itself. Science only talks about the Neural Activity and cannot link any Neural Activity with any Chain of Logic to any Conscious Experience. All we know is that Neural Activity happens and then a Conscious Experience can happen. You think that's some kind of an Explanation. But that's not an Explanation. There is a huge Explanatory Gap there. So, we are at an Impasse.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 24th, 2021, 10:14 amMaybe to you.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 24th, 2021, 10:13 amLooks like an Impasse to me.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 7:00 pmYes you do. ALL your experiences are conswcious ones. So much so that you are guilty of tautology.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 4:11 pm
All I can say is, I don't know what my Conscious Experiences are,Wrong. You are what you are. Live with that! Since the dawn of human history we have been trying to understand matter from out consiousness.and I don't know even what I am. You know everything and I know nothing. We are at an Impasse.
Your sense of self is all you have; all you can be sure of. We learn from our lived experience that there is an outside world
I find it odd that you seem to be conscious of the fact of your dissatisfation with science which is the only thing that has provided any true insights into how our consciousness can be understood as a part of the outside world of your conscious experience.
You are happy to express your dissatisfaction with no viable alternative.
- Sculptor1
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
The IMM and connectism are not alternatives to anything. All they seem to be is abstractions without material cause.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 25th, 2021, 11:02 amThe Inter Mind Model and Connectism are at least a Perspective alternative to the Physicalist approach which only allows research into the Neurons. It is mind boggling to me that you cannot recognize that Science has provided Zero Insight into Conscious Experience and Consciousness itself. Science only talks about the Neural Activity and cannot link any Neural Activity with any Chain of Logic to any Conscious Experience. All we know is that Neural Activity happens and then a Conscious Experience can happen. You think that's some kind of an Explanation. But that's not an Explanation. There is a huge Explanatory Gap there. So, we are at an Impasse.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 24th, 2021, 10:14 amMaybe to you.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 24th, 2021, 10:13 amLooks like an Impasse to me.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 23rd, 2021, 7:00 pm
Yes you do. ALL your experiences are conswcious ones. So much so that you are guilty of tautology.
Wrong. You are what you are. Live with that! Since the dawn of human history we have been trying to understand matter from out consiousness.
Your sense of self is all you have; all you can be sure of. We learn from our lived experience that there is an outside world
I find it odd that you seem to be conscious of the fact of your dissatisfation with science which is the only thing that has provided any true insights into how our consciousness can be understood as a part of the outside world of your conscious experience.
You are happy to express your dissatisfaction with no viable alternative.
You might as well talk about spirits and ghosts.
You might not be open to the massive amounts of insights provided by science, but it is the only area were clear sets of results have been found. And until there is an alternative I am pretty sure that this method shall continue to be persued.
Since you have nothing else you will have to remain unsatisfied whilst science gets on with the job it has been doing very successfully for a long time.
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
I am trying to emphasize the difference between understanding the Brain and understanding Conscious Experience. Science has made huge progress in understanding the Brain, but has made identically Zero progress in understanding Conscious Experience. This is an Embarrassment for Science. If Conscious Experience were in the Brain, I would expect at least some Clue or incremental understanding of what Conscious Experience is. There is only Silence and Diversionary tactics trying to make us look away from the Conscious Experience and simply Believe that it is all in the Brain with no Chain of Logic. I'm not say I know it isn't in the Brain but if it is in the Brain then after all this study and research for the past hundred years, there should be more than Zero progress. I just offer an alternative Perspective on the problem.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2021, 2:45 pmThe IMM and connectism are not alternatives to anything. All they seem to be is abstractions without material cause.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 25th, 2021, 11:02 amThe Inter Mind Model and Connectism are at least a Perspective alternative to the Physicalist approach which only allows research into the Neurons. It is mind boggling to me that you cannot recognize that Science has provided Zero Insight into Conscious Experience and Consciousness itself. Science only talks about the Neural Activity and cannot link any Neural Activity with any Chain of Logic to any Conscious Experience. All we know is that Neural Activity happens and then a Conscious Experience can happen. You think that's some kind of an Explanation. But that's not an Explanation. There is a huge Explanatory Gap there. So, we are at an Impasse.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 24th, 2021, 10:14 amMaybe to you.
I find it odd that you seem to be conscious of the fact of your dissatisfation with science which is the only thing that has provided any true insights into how our consciousness can be understood as a part of the outside world of your conscious experience.
You are happy to express your dissatisfaction with no viable alternative.
You might as well talk about spirits and ghosts.
You might not be open to the massive amounts of insights provided by science, but it is the only area were clear sets of results have been found. And until there is an alternative I am pretty sure that this method shall continue to be persued.
Since you have nothing else you will have to remain unsatisfied whilst science gets on with the job it has been doing very successfully for a long time.
- Sculptor1
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
Please cite!SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 25th, 2021, 3:45 pmI am trying to emphasize the difference between understanding the Brain and understanding Conscious Experience. Science has made huge progress in understanding the Brain, but has made identically Zero progress in understanding Conscious Experience. This is an Embarrassment for Science.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2021, 2:45 pmThe IMM and connectism are not alternatives to anything. All they seem to be is abstractions without material cause.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 25th, 2021, 11:02 amThe Inter Mind Model and Connectism are at least a Perspective alternative to the Physicalist approach which only allows research into the Neurons. It is mind boggling to me that you cannot recognize that Science has provided Zero Insight into Conscious Experience and Consciousness itself. Science only talks about the Neural Activity and cannot link any Neural Activity with any Chain of Logic to any Conscious Experience. All we know is that Neural Activity happens and then a Conscious Experience can happen. You think that's some kind of an Explanation. But that's not an Explanation. There is a huge Explanatory Gap there. So, we are at an Impasse.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 24th, 2021, 10:14 am
Maybe to you.
I find it odd that you seem to be conscious of the fact of your dissatisfation with science which is the only thing that has provided any true insights into how our consciousness can be understood as a part of the outside world of your conscious experience.
You are happy to express your dissatisfaction with no viable alternative.
You might as well talk about spirits and ghosts.
You might not be open to the massive amounts of insights provided by science, but it is the only area were clear sets of results have been found. And until there is an alternative I am pretty sure that this method shall continue to be persued.
Since you have nothing else you will have to remain unsatisfied whilst science gets on with the job it has been doing very successfully for a long time.
I cannot see how this is an alternative. I think you have stated what you thik is a problem but you have not said anything to address the problem. I suggest you know all you can already about consciousness, as we all do as it is primary. You do not seem satisfied with that.If Conscious Experience were in the Brain, I would expect at least some Clue or incremental understanding of what Conscious Experience is. There is only Silence and Diversionary tactics trying to make us look away from the Conscious Experience and simply Believe that it is all in the Brain with no Chain of Logic. I'm not say I know it isn't in the Brain but if it is in the Brain then after all this study and research for the past hundred years, there should be more than Zero progress. I just offer an alternative Perspective on the problem.
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
Many Physicalists/Materialists believe that the mere statement that "Conscious Experience is in the Neurons" constitutes some kind of Explanation for Conscious Experience. Well, that is not an Explanation. That is a Speculation and a Belief. Nobody has an Explanation for Conscious Experience. The Inter Mind Model is not even supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Framework for Conscious Experience. The Connection Perspective is also not supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Perspective change. It postulates that Conscious Experience must exist in a Conscious Mind concept which exists in a separate Conscious Space concept that is separate from the Physical Mind (Brain), which is in Physical Space.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2021, 4:59 pmPlease cite!SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 25th, 2021, 3:45 pmI am trying to emphasize the difference between understanding the Brain and understanding Conscious Experience. Science has made huge progress in understanding the Brain, but has made identically Zero progress in understanding Conscious Experience. This is an Embarrassment for Science.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2021, 2:45 pmThe IMM and connectism are not alternatives to anything. All they seem to be is abstractions without material cause.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 25th, 2021, 11:02 am
The Inter Mind Model and Connectism are at least a Perspective alternative to the Physicalist approach which only allows research into the Neurons. It is mind boggling to me that you cannot recognize that Science has provided Zero Insight into Conscious Experience and Consciousness itself. Science only talks about the Neural Activity and cannot link any Neural Activity with any Chain of Logic to any Conscious Experience. All we know is that Neural Activity happens and then a Conscious Experience can happen. You think that's some kind of an Explanation. But that's not an Explanation. There is a huge Explanatory Gap there. So, we are at an Impasse.
You might as well talk about spirits and ghosts.
You might not be open to the massive amounts of insights provided by science, but it is the only area were clear sets of results have been found. And until there is an alternative I am pretty sure that this method shall continue to be persued.
Since you have nothing else you will have to remain unsatisfied whilst science gets on with the job it has been doing very successfully for a long time.I cannot see how this is an alternative. I think you have stated what you thik is a problem but you have not said anything to address the problem. I suggest you know all you can already about consciousness, as we all do as it is primary. You do not seem satisfied with that.If Conscious Experience were in the Brain, I would expect at least some Clue or incremental understanding of what Conscious Experience is. There is only Silence and Diversionary tactics trying to make us look away from the Conscious Experience and simply Believe that it is all in the Brain with no Chain of Logic. I'm not say I know it isn't in the Brain but if it is in the Brain then after all this study and research for the past hundred years, there should be more than Zero progress. I just offer an alternative Perspective on the problem.
- Sculptor1
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
Please cite!SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 26th, 2021, 9:14 amMany Physicalists/Materialists believe that the mere statement that "Conscious Experience is in the Neurons" constitutes some kind of Explanation for Conscious Experience. Well, that is not an Explanation. That is a Speculation and a Belief. Nobody has an Explanation for Conscious Experience. The Inter Mind Model is not even supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Framework for Conscious Experience. The Connection Perspective is also not supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Perspective change. It postulates that Conscious Experience must exist in a Conscious Mind concept which exists in a separate Conscious Space concept that is separate from the Physical Mind (Brain), which is in Physical Space.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2021, 4:59 pmPlease cite!SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 25th, 2021, 3:45 pmI am trying to emphasize the difference between understanding the Brain and understanding Conscious Experience. Science has made huge progress in understanding the Brain, but has made identically Zero progress in understanding Conscious Experience. This is an Embarrassment for Science.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2021, 2:45 pm
The IMM and connectism are not alternatives to anything. All they seem to be is abstractions without material cause.
You might as well talk about spirits and ghosts.
You might not be open to the massive amounts of insights provided by science, but it is the only area were clear sets of results have been found. And until there is an alternative I am pretty sure that this method shall continue to be persued.
Since you have nothing else you will have to remain unsatisfied whilst science gets on with the job it has been doing very successfully for a long time.I cannot see how this is an alternative. I think you have stated what you thik is a problem but you have not said anything to address the problem. I suggest you know all you can already about consciousness, as we all do as it is primary. You do not seem satisfied with that.If Conscious Experience were in the Brain, I would expect at least some Clue or incremental understanding of what Conscious Experience is. There is only Silence and Diversionary tactics trying to make us look away from the Conscious Experience and simply Believe that it is all in the Brain with no Chain of Logic. I'm not say I know it isn't in the Brain but if it is in the Brain then after all this study and research for the past hundred years, there should be more than Zero progress. I just offer an alternative Perspective on the problem.
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
See https://TheInterMind.comSculptor1 wrote: ↑December 26th, 2021, 1:37 pmPlease cite!SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 26th, 2021, 9:14 am Many Physicalists/Materialists believe that the mere statement that "Conscious Experience is in the Neurons" constitutes some kind of Explanation for Conscious Experience. Well, that is not an Explanation. That is a Speculation and a Belief. Nobody has an Explanation for Conscious Experience. The Inter Mind Model is not even supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Framework for Conscious Experience. The Connection Perspective is also not supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Perspective change. It postulates that Conscious Experience must exist in a Conscious Mind concept which exists in a separate Conscious Space concept that is separate from the Physical Mind (Brain), which is in Physical Space.
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
You might want to do better than that. I do not think presenting a jerry-rigged web page that you cobbled together nearly ten years ago, and has ZERO academic references is a worthy citation.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 27th, 2021, 8:28 amSee***TheInterMind*comSculptor1 wrote: ↑December 26th, 2021, 1:37 pmPlease cite!SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 26th, 2021, 9:14 am Many Physicalists/Materialists believe that the mere statement that "Conscious Experience is in the Neurons" constitutes some kind of Explanation for Conscious Experience. Well, that is not an Explanation. That is a Speculation and a Belief. Nobody has an Explanation for Conscious Experience. The Inter Mind Model is not even supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Framework for Conscious Experience. The Connection Perspective is also not supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Perspective change. It postulates that Conscious Experience must exist in a Conscious Mind concept which exists in a separate Conscious Space concept that is separate from the Physical Mind (Brain), which is in Physical Space.
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
The website contains my thoughts. Take it or leave it, and I guess I know what your choice will be. Bye to you.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 27th, 2021, 4:01 pmYou might want to do better than that. I do not think presenting a jerry-rigged web page that you cobbled together nearly ten years ago, and has ZERO academic references is a worthy citation.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 27th, 2021, 8:28 amSee***TheInterMind*comSculptor1 wrote: ↑December 26th, 2021, 1:37 pmPlease cite!SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 26th, 2021, 9:14 am Many Physicalists/Materialists believe that the mere statement that "Conscious Experience is in the Neurons" constitutes some kind of Explanation for Conscious Experience. Well, that is not an Explanation. That is a Speculation and a Belief. Nobody has an Explanation for Conscious Experience. The Inter Mind Model is not even supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Framework for Conscious Experience. The Connection Perspective is also not supposed to be a Theory, but rather it is a Perspective change. It postulates that Conscious Experience must exist in a Conscious Mind concept which exists in a separate Conscious Space concept that is separate from the Physical Mind (Brain), which is in Physical Space.
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
Indeed. I might was well read an astrology book - at least it has evidence.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 28th, 2021, 8:15 amThe website contains my thoughts. Take it or leave it, and I guess I know what your choice will be. Bye to you.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 27th, 2021, 4:01 pmYou might want to do better than that. I do not think presenting a jerry-rigged web page that you cobbled together nearly ten years ago, and has ZERO academic references is a worthy citation.
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Re: Connectism Emphasizes the Connection Perspective
Now that explains why you don't understand.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑December 28th, 2021, 11:21 amIndeed. I might was well read an astrology book - at least it has evidence.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑December 28th, 2021, 8:15 amThe website contains my thoughts. Take it or leave it, and I guess I know what your choice will be. Bye to you.
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
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by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023
Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
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