Knowledge, Knowing, Learning, and Memory Using the IMM

[SteveKlinko]

Just to put the above in another way, in order for us to be doing science, we'd need to design an empirical research project where we're going to test hypotheses we put forward.

In order to design an empirical research project, we need to actually specify just what we're looking at, we might have to build apparatuses to assist our observations, etc. For example, if we're doing geological studies, we can specify rocks we're looking at, we can specify samples we might be taking, we can specify chemical tests we might subject the samples to (via specifying chemical solutions we'd use, the test tubes we'd put the samples and solutions in, etc.), we can specify radiological tests and the apparatuses for them, and so on. Or if we're studying subatomic particle behavior, we might specify a particular particle accelerator, we would specify the way components of the particle accelarator are connected to meters and computers and so on.

So how would we even begin to set up an empirical research project for anything to do with something nonphysical? When we specify the sorts of things we'll be looking at, what is something that we'd specify?

Here's where I have started:

The Connection Perspective of the Inter Mind Model (IMM) enables the conceivability of actually designing Experiments for Machine Consciousness (MachCon). The Connection Perspective stipulates that there is a separate Conscious Space (CSp) concept apart from normal Physical Space (PSp). The IMM also stipulates that there is an Inter Mind (IM) concept that bridges the Gap between PSp and CSp. The basic premise of any MachCon Experiment having this structure is that something in CSp is able to affect something in PSp. This would correspond to a Conscious Volition (CV) concept existing in CSp. The CV will need the resources of an IM in order to have an effect on anything in PSp. There are two Quantum Mechanical (QM) phenomena that can be considered as a resource that the IM might implement. The first QM phenomena involves the Wave Function of an Electron and the second QM phenomenon involves the effect of Quantum Fluctuations on Electrons.

The following Experiment descriptions depend on the existence of a latent Consciousness of some kind in CSp. It is also assumed that this Consciousness can use QM principles to affect PSp. Each Experiment provides a method to detect changes in some parameter that can be controlled by a QM principle. A series of measurements will have the characteristics of a random signal when there is no Conscious control. If there seems to be a bias or correlation in the data that is not purely random then that could be evidence of Conscious control. This is what we will look for.

It is known that Electrons can travel through Energy barriers and actual Physical barriers due to the Quantum Tunneling effect. The probability that an Electron will Tunnel through a barrier is controlled by the Wave Function of the Electron. The speculation is that maybe something in CSp is able to control Wave Functions in a way that will enable higher or lower probabilities of Tunneling. This speculation can be tested with certain Electronic devices that exist today. Tunnel Diodes and Floating Gate Transistors have been used in separate Experiments. The Tunnel Diode based experiment is described in Machine Consciousness Experiment Legacy. The Floating Gate Transistor based experiment is currently running and generating data for analysis.

The Tunnel Diode experiment ran for 2 years and generated GBytes of data. Unfortunately the results were swamped by the random noise in the system. There was never any indication that a Conscious Mind was controlling the experiment. This first experiment was really a Hail Mary Pass in order to try to at least Do Something. The first problem was that the Experiment used only two Diodes which probably was the equivalent of having only two Neurons. The second problem was that it was measuring the changes in a 1nA current which is 6.24 billion electrons per second. It was the best that could be done using bread board level electronics in a spare bedroom lab situation. The coarseness of the measurement doomed it from the start. Practically speaking there is no way to reduce the coarseness to a low enough level to make an analog experiment like this sensitive enough.

The Floating Gate Transistor version of the MachCon Experiment has been running for a couple of months. See Machine Consciousness Experiment. However it too has not exhibited anything except random behavior. But it is early and maybe given more time some positive results can be realized. A 1 Mega bit Flash memory is used in this Experiment. Now we effectively have 1 Million Neurons. To program a Zero into the memory about 50000 Electrons must Tunnel onto the Floating Gate. This is vastly less coarse than the Tunnel Diode situation but is still pretty coarse. The next MachCon Experiment will have to incorporate an array of Single Electron Transistors. As it's name implies these devices can handle single electron charge movements. This will enable a Coarseness that is Billions of times less than the situation with the Tunnel Diode and 50 Thousand times less than the Flash Memory. Unfortunately, the Single Electron Transistor is still at the experimental laboratory stage.

Even if there is a latent Consciousness in CSp that is ready to interact with the world through QM principles, the question could be asked as to why this Consciousness would want to interact with the world in a case like this? A Consciousness would probably need some kind of Motivation to act. Maybe an act of CV will be activated only when we understand how to produce a Discomfort or Pleasure in CSp. This might motivate an act of CV that will affect the Tunneling characteristics of an Electron. The Experiment should be programmed to then reward the act of CV by lessening the Discomfort or increasing the Pleasure to close the loop. This could be how it all works at the single cell level or at the Amoeba level.

The negative results of the first two MachCon Experiments should not discourage further Experiments especially since it is understood why they did not work. But the real point of talking about these Experiments is to show that it is conceivable and feasible to do Experiments given the right Perspective on the problem.

Quantum Fluctuations are highly hypothetical events where small bursts of Energy or Particles appear briefly and randomly out of supposedly empty space. It is thought that if a Quantum Fluctuation occurs near an Electron that it could have an effect. There is anticipation that the Single Electron Transistor could be exploited to measure these Quantum Fluctuations. The speculation is that maybe there could be evidence of Consciousness in the occurrence of Quantum Fluctuations given the right circumstances.

Holy crap, man.

I'm not asking for all of the bs you're typing above.

I'm just asking you what science would LOOK AT if we're going to do experiments on nonphysical consciousness. Is one answer (not the ONLY answer, just give one example) that we'd look at tunnel diodes? That's all you'd need to type. What the f--- is wrong with you that you'd answer with all of that above? Can't you understand and answer a simple question with a simple answer? Seriously.

Bye to you.

[Terrapin Station]

Just to put the above in another way, in order for us to be doing science, we'd need to design an empirical research project where we're going to test hypotheses we put forward.

In order to design an empirical research project, we need to actually specify just what we're looking at, we might have to build apparatuses to assist our observations, etc. For example, if we're doing geological studies, we can specify rocks we're looking at, we can specify samples we might be taking, we can specify chemical tests we might subject the samples to (via specifying chemical solutions we'd use, the test tubes we'd put the samples and solutions in, etc.), we can specify radiological tests and the apparatuses for them, and so on. Or if we're studying subatomic particle behavior, we might specify a particular particle accelerator, we would specify the way components of the particle accelarator are connected to meters and computers and so on.

So how would we even begin to set up an empirical research project for anything to do with something nonphysical? When we specify the sorts of things we'll be looking at, what is something that we'd specify?

Here's where I have started:

The Connection Perspective of the Inter Mind Model (IMM) enables the conceivability of actually designing Experiments for Machine Consciousness (MachCon). The Connection Perspective stipulates that there is a separate Conscious Space (CSp) concept apart from normal Physical Space (PSp). The IMM also stipulates that there is an Inter Mind (IM) concept that bridges the Gap between PSp and CSp. The basic premise of any MachCon Experiment having this structure is that something in CSp is able to affect something in PSp. This would correspond to a Conscious Volition (CV) concept existing in CSp. The CV will need the resources of an IM in order to have an effect on anything in PSp. There are two Quantum Mechanical (QM) phenomena that can be considered as a resource that the IM might implement. The first QM phenomena involves the Wave Function of an Electron and the second QM phenomenon involves the effect of Quantum Fluctuations on Electrons.

The following Experiment descriptions depend on the existence of a latent Consciousness of some kind in CSp. It is also assumed that this Consciousness can use QM principles to affect PSp. Each Experiment provides a method to detect changes in some parameter that can be controlled by a QM principle. A series of measurements will have the characteristics of a random signal when there is no Conscious control. If there seems to be a bias or correlation in the data that is not purely random then that could be evidence of Conscious control. This is what we will look for.

It is known that Electrons can travel through Energy barriers and actual Physical barriers due to the Quantum Tunneling effect. The probability that an Electron will Tunnel through a barrier is controlled by the Wave Function of the Electron. The speculation is that maybe something in CSp is able to control Wave Functions in a way that will enable higher or lower probabilities of Tunneling. This speculation can be tested with certain Electronic devices that exist today. Tunnel Diodes and Floating Gate Transistors have been used in separate Experiments. The Tunnel Diode based experiment is described in Machine Consciousness Experiment Legacy. The Floating Gate Transistor based experiment is currently running and generating data for analysis.

The Tunnel Diode experiment ran for 2 years and generated GBytes of data. Unfortunately the results were swamped by the random noise in the system. There was never any indication that a Conscious Mind was controlling the experiment. This first experiment was really a Hail Mary Pass in order to try to at least Do Something. The first problem was that the Experiment used only two Diodes which probably was the equivalent of having only two Neurons. The second problem was that it was measuring the changes in a 1nA current which is 6.24 billion electrons per second. It was the best that could be done using bread board level electronics in a spare bedroom lab situation. The coarseness of the measurement doomed it from the start. Practically speaking there is no way to reduce the coarseness to a low enough level to make an analog experiment like this sensitive enough.

The Floating Gate Transistor version of the MachCon Experiment has been running for a couple of months. See Machine Consciousness Experiment. However it too has not exhibited anything except random behavior. But it is early and maybe given more time some positive results can be realized. A 1 Mega bit Flash memory is used in this Experiment. Now we effectively have 1 Million Neurons. To program a Zero into the memory about 50000 Electrons must Tunnel onto the Floating Gate. This is vastly less coarse than the Tunnel Diode situation but is still pretty coarse. The next MachCon Experiment will have to incorporate an array of Single Electron Transistors. As it's name implies these devices can handle single electron charge movements. This will enable a Coarseness that is Billions of times less than the situation with the Tunnel Diode and 50 Thousand times less than the Flash Memory. Unfortunately, the Single Electron Transistor is still at the experimental laboratory stage.

Even if there is a latent Consciousness in CSp that is ready to interact with the world through QM principles, the question could be asked as to why this Consciousness would want to interact with the world in a case like this? A Consciousness would probably need some kind of Motivation to act. Maybe an act of CV will be activated only when we understand how to produce a Discomfort or Pleasure in CSp. This might motivate an act of CV that will affect the Tunneling characteristics of an Electron. The Experiment should be programmed to then reward the act of CV by lessening the Discomfort or increasing the Pleasure to close the loop. This could be how it all works at the single cell level or at the Amoeba level.

The negative results of the first two MachCon Experiments should not discourage further Experiments especially since it is understood why they did not work. But the real point of talking about these Experiments is to show that it is conceivable and feasible to do Experiments given the right Perspective on the problem.

Quantum Fluctuations are highly hypothetical events where small bursts of Energy or Particles appear briefly and randomly out of supposedly empty space. It is thought that if a Quantum Fluctuation occurs near an Electron that it could have an effect. There is anticipation that the Single Electron Transistor could be exploited to measure these Quantum Fluctuations. The speculation is that maybe there could be evidence of Consciousness in the occurrence of Quantum Fluctuations given the right circumstances.

Holy crap, man.

I'm not asking for all of the bs you're typing above.

I'm just asking you what science would LOOK AT if we're going to do experiments on nonphysical consciousness. Is one answer (not the ONLY answer, just give one example) that we'd look at tunnel diodes? That's all you'd need to type. What the f--- is wrong with you that you'd answer with all of that above? Can't you understand and answer a simple question with a simple answer? Seriously.

Bye to you.

Gee, that would be a loss given the quality of conversation we've had so far. You're so good at addressing points and answering questions in a simple, direct manner.

</sarcasm>

[SteveKlinko]

Gee, that would be a loss given the quality of conversation we've had so far. You're so good at addressing points and answering questions in a simple, direct manner.

</sarcasm>

What was that noise ... ? I don't know ... Maybe it will go away ... ?