Is a Metaphysics of 'Inner Space' a Rational and Coherent Possibility?

[JackDaydream]

I began thinking about this while reading Huston Smith's 'Forgotten Truths: The Common Vision of the World's Religions', which looks at the concepts of dimensions and levels of reality. I am raising the issue as one of metaphysics, although it could be argued that religious or mythic worldviews pay specific attention and importance to 'inner space' or dimensions. It is not simpl about subjectivity and objectivity but about sources of knowledge and information underlying experience.

Huston Smith speaks of the 'imagery of dimensions' which include space and time alongside aspects which may appear as invisible but may still be real. He says,
'Distance can render things invisible', but suggests that it may be more complex, "because we lack the kind of sense receptors that could connect with it'. Of course, it may be that it is about processes and an interplay between variables.

It has got me wondering about the question of the idea of multidimensionlity as a metaphysical construct. I am not sure entirely how the idea of multidimensional reality and the multiverse compare because the latter is more in the context of quantum physics, whereas the idea of multidimensional awareness is more one of the possibilities of developing consciousness. However, it is about the existence of other dimensions beyond 3, 4, 5 and multidimensionality. Nusra Sahin, in ' Multidimensional Consciousness and the New Earth' says, 'Our reality is built upon three dimensions and four- dimensions consciousness systems we have partially experienced the fifth -dimensional mind's wonders.

This area of thought is related to the issue of qualia and consciousness. However, what is different in the topic which I am seeking to explore is that it is not merely about 'what is' but about becoming in terms of potential for human beings. I am wondering how this works metaphysically and how it relates to the mind and body relationship. What does the idea of dimensions signify and is 'inner space' a concept which makes sense as a metaphysical construct? Any thoughts?

[stevie]

All these speculations don't seem to lead to anywhere else than still further speculations. Endless.

[JackDaydream]

@stevie

But isn't life about speculation and it is only on the basis of speculation that any initial ideas can be explored empirically. Of course, it is possible to go by what others think, in writing or speech. This does not lead to any independent thinking though, and I don't imagine that you are simply trying to say that human beings should be like robotic sheep, and defeats the purpose of philosophy. I don't see how philosophy can avoid speculation as a starting point.

As for my specific thread question it really comes down to how important the inner world is viewed. In a way, this is partly connected to the issue of speculation because the source of speculation is the inner world. Of course, there is a danger of inner and outer being cast as binaries and it is not that simple. But, what I am wondering about is the metaphysical validity of 'inner space' as a construct or source of importance.

[SteveKlinko]

I began thinking about this while reading Huston Smith's 'Forgotten Truths: ...

The one thing I learned from studying 4D is that the reason I don't understand 4D Space is because I am too embedded in this 3D Universe. I can think about 4D Space in theory and use all the different techniques for visualizing it but my 3D brain will never let me fully understand it. I do not think anyone can. We would need a 4D Brain to do this.

To be able to see in our 3D World we have a Visual Cortex that is roughly a flat (but folded) 2D patch of a little more than 1 billion Neurons. If it were a square patch it would be about 32000 Neurons on each side. A 2D being would only need a line of these Neurons or 32000 of them. The whole 2D Brain Neuron count would be scaled down by a factor of 32000. A 2D Brain would be 32000 times less intelligent than a 3D Brain. A 4D Visual Cortex by analogy would have to be a cube of Neurons with 32000 Neurons on all sides. It would be a 3D Hyper Plane so the 4D being would view it as flat. A 4D being's Visual Cortex would have 32000 times more Neurons than a 3D being's Visual Cortex. The 4D Brain Neuron count would be scaled up by a factor of 32000 and a 4D being will probably be 32000 times more intelligent than we are.

So the conclusion we have to come to is that we, and I mean all of us 3D beings, can never know what it would be like to actually be a 4D being. We are just not smart enough. You might think you understand 4D using one of the techniques but you never really get there. You need to be able to see our 3D Space as being Flat. I think this is an important realization for Philosophy and the study of the limits of our ability to understand things.

[JackDaydream]

@Steve Klinko

Do you really just live in 3D? I first came across the idea of moving into 4D and 5D in the context of the spiritual idea of 'ascension,' which was emphasising that the consciousness of human beings was altering. It was based on the idea that there have been shifts. In some ways, this could be seen as new age 'woo woo', but in some ways, it does seem that human experiences do involve so much more than the 3 dimensions, especially if one pays more attention to it.

Going back to the discussion on the qualia thread which I had with you about the experience of closing one's eyes, I have been thinking recently about this in relation to multidimensional reality. I think that I mentioned that since having some inflammation behind my right eye that I have noticed far more visionary experiences in that eye. It may be partly physical because in my research on eyes it does seem that phosphenes in the retina impact upon the eyes when they are closed. However, I think that metaphysically it is more than about qualia and is about lucid dreaming, and possibly what some writers have described as the 'astral plane'. The night before last I was lying in bed awake seeing all kinds of things like rock gardens with waterfalls and walls with strange symbols on them. I don't think that I am psychotic because my eyes were closed like dreaming and I don't believe that the images were real in a concrete way. It was like a form of meditation experience of stepping into a different kind of awareness and multidimensional awareness beyond the physical dimensions.

I also wonder about how some issues people have in coping in life are connected to trying to live in 3D reality when there are more dimensions beyond the physical. For example, I often seem to drop things and find that I have to really think about which is my right and left leg. It is about anchoring consciousness in the physical body and what I am saying may seem to imply some kind of dualism, which is often raised in the idea of out of body experiences and near death ones. Not everyone has these, although it may be that more people do than those who speak of them. But, what I am asking you is whether you simply live in 3D?

[stevie]

@ stevie

But isn't life about speculation ... I don't see how philosophy can avoid speculation as a starting point.

Sorry, my fault. I should have known better. I'll try to practice discipline and refrain from reading your thread opening posts.

[SteveKlinko]

Do you really just live in 3D? I first came across the idea of moving into 4D and 5D in the context of the spiritual idea of 'ascension,' which was emphasising that the consciousness of human beings was altering. It was based on the idea that there have been shifts. In some ways, this could be seen as new age 'woo woo', but in some ways, it does seem that human experiences do involve so much more than the 3 dimensions, especially if one pays more attention to it.

Going back to the discussion on the qualia thread which I had with you about the experience of closing one's eyes, I have been thinking recently about this in relation to multidimensional reality. I think that I mentioned that since having some inflammation behind my right eye that I have noticed far more visionary experiences in that eye. It may be partly physical because in my research on eyes it does seem that phosphenes in the retina impact upon the eyes when they are closed. However, I think that metaphysically it is more than about qualia and is about lucid dreaming, and possibly what some writers have described as the 'astral plane'. The night before last I was lying in bed awake seeing all kinds of things like rock gardens with waterfalls and walls with strange symbols on them. I don't think that I am psychotic because my eyes were closed like dreaming and I don't believe that the images were real in a concrete way. It was like a form of meditation experience of stepping into a different kind of awareness and multidimensional awareness beyond the physical dimensions.

I also wonder about how some issues people have in coping in life are connected to trying to live in 3D reality when there are more dimensions beyond the physical. For example, I often seem to drop things and find that I have to really think about which is my right and left leg. It is about anchoring consciousness in the physical body and what I am saying may seem to imply some kind of dualism, which is often raised in the idea of out of body experiences and near death ones. Not everyone has these, although it may be that more people do than those who speak of them. But, what I am asking you is whether you simply live in 3D?

I see. I was talking about a higher dimension of Physical Space (4D), but you were talking about dimensions of Consciousness Experience. I also speculate that there is something beyond our 3D Space, but I am not talking about another dimension of Physical Space when I talk about Conscious Space (CSp). Conscious Space is not an extension of Physical Space (PSp). Rather CSp is a whole different kind of Abstract Space. My argument there was that the Human 3D Brain is not smart enough to understand 4D Space in the sense of understanding what it would be like to be an actual 4D Being in 4D Space. You have to be able to realize how 3D objects look Flat in 4D. You need to See inside a 3D object in order to realize that. You would be able to do that as a 4D Being but not as a 3D Being.

[JackDaydream]

@SteveKlinko

An underlying question may be where do the higher dimensions of physical space differ or merge with the 'dimensions of consciousness' ? This may be the tricky area of philosophy about the relationship between mind and matter.

[SteveKlinko]

@SteveKlinko

An underlying question may be where do the higher dimensions of physical space differ or merge with the 'dimensions of consciousness' ? This may be the tricky area of philosophy about the relationship between mind and matter.

In my way of thinking, Consciousness is Dimensionless. What do you mean by Higher Dimensions of Physical Space? Our Space is 3D and there are no higher Dimensions beyond that in our Universe. Maybe some other Universes will burst (Big Bang) into existence with 4D Space or 5D Space or higher someday.

[JackDaydream]

@SteveKlinko

Your argument here seems to be one of the materialistic understanding of reality which I understood you thought was extremely lacking in your previous view of consciousness. You say that 'Consciousness is Dimensionsless' and do you mean that it is separate from the physical world? That is because if it is linked to the physical world it must relate to the basis of dimensions and how they are bound up with matter, as the brain and body exist in the dimensions of space rather than outside of it. The inner world of experience has a basis in the physical body, even if it is seen as transcending or going beyond the body itself.

[SteveKlinko]

Your argument here seems to be one of the materialistic understanding of reality which I understood you thought was extremely lacking in your previous view of consciousness. You say that 'Consciousness is Dimensionsless' and do you mean that it is separate from the physical world? That is because if it is linked to the physical world it must relate to the basis of dimensions and how they are bound up with matter, as the brain and body exist in the dimensions of space rather than outside of it. The inner world of experience has a basis in the physical body, even if it is seen as transcending or going beyond the body itself.

I think Consciousness will appear to take on the Dimensionality of the Physical Universe it is connected to, so 3D in our case. In a 4D Universe Consciousness would appear to take on a 4D character in order to connect to it. But Consciousness itself is Dimensionless and Timeless. And Consciousness is, in my view, not part of the Physical Universe, but only it Connects with it. How the Connection is made is not known at this time. Before the Big Bang, Consciousness was there. After the Big Crunch, or other dissolution of the Universe, Consciousness will still be there. Consciousness is not Physical and cannot be destroyed. Conscious Space is indestructible but Physical Spaces always get destroyed.

[Pattern-chaser]

All these speculations don't seem to lead to anywhere else than still further speculations. Endless.

Surely this is a common consequence of nearly all serious thought? We find a few answers, but we find more questions too. That seems to be the way it works.

[JackDaydream]

@SteveKlinko

You probably have more of an understanding of physical dimensions than I have because you come from an engineering background. How mind and consciousness fits into this though in terms of connections is extremely complex.

One aspect which I have read about in a number of books is the idea of the subtle body and the chakras, which are the energy centres in the body. This perspective is more prominent in Eastern philosophy, but is at the basis of some traditions of holistic medicine. It is different from the Western association of consciousness with the brain. One main idea within the Eastern view of the chakras is the pineal gland, which is recognized as being significant for sleep patterns in particular, because it produces Melatonin. Descartes also saw the connection between mind and body as being related to the mysterious pineal gland.

[stevie]

All these speculations don't seem to lead to anywhere else than still further speculations. Endless.

Surely this is a common consequence of nearly all serious thought?

A consequence of speculative thought taken seriously.

[JackDaydream]

@stevie

Are you a logical positivist? That is often the position from which philosophers criticise metaphysics as pointless speculation. But, that is usually in connection with limitations of knowledge and from what I have read of your comments on various threads that doesn't seem to be your angle. So, on what basis do you think knowledge is possible, especially in relation to understanding the processes of the inner life and its connection to the mind and body relationship?