Is empathy in people reduced by phone use?

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Empiricist-Bruno
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Is empathy in people reduced by phone use?

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

https://gabbwireless.com/blog/phones-up-empathy-down/

As someone who holds on dearly to beliefs that the vast majority of people reject, (I think communication using machines is communication by machines and therefore communication by machines cannot put people in touch with each other but only put people in touch with machines) I find that the article above validates my views: machines aren't empathic and the more we connect our children with them, the less empathetic they eventually become. I think eventually, as they grow into adult hood, they will have cause to blame those who linked them to the machines.

I would like to dig a bit deeper into this issue by making one key point: A an empiricist, I believe the world exist mechanically in the mind and livingly outside the mind. The world's existence is dual in its totality. And this divide is very well noticable as you compare live discussions to phone text discussions, for instance. When you use your phone, any other that you believe to be in touch with through the phone comes from and exists mechanically in the mind. In live discussions, the person you talk to still get to exist inside your mind in a mechanical, imaginary way but with this type of discussion, you need to be open to the possibility that you can be lively interfered with, and that gives empathy there a chance to grow roots.

So, the belief that human communication can take place in such places as these electronic forums, social media apps, is all false which leaves the question open of knowing what then is the best way to describe the exchanges taking place in such electronic environment. My answer is that what takes place in such medium is open thoughts. You cannot say things through electronic devices, you can only think things. It is an error to think of whatever you write onto a computer or phone as "your say"; it's always "your thoughts".

This angle obviously requires clarity about the difference between a person's thoughts and a person's words. Thoughts never commit a person to a course of action but words in the real world are normally taken as a commitment. You can think of what you want to order at the restaurant but until you speak up to the person taking your order, there is no commitment. Once you have spoken, live worldly action will ensue.

But when people are actors and putting on a performance for spectators, the words they say belong to the company they work with, and since this is a demonstration of some author's work, such words in a play may or may not be considered words; but simply the author's thought given to its actors for the play.

So, in order to know whether you are faced with thought or speech of a person will depend upon the circumstances, and those circumstances may not always allow you to tell the difference, given your angle on what you are observing.

Ok, so now we know. I haven't said anything here (because it's just not possible) but you may be able to make something out of that, yes, no?

The consequences of not recognizing electronic forms of communication as a human form of communication or perhaps as not being fully a form of human communication, is key to human progress towards a more empathetic world and failure to recognize this may lead to a world where empathy is sorely lacking, with wars, destruction of the environment, etc.
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JackDaydream
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Re: Is empathy in people reduced by phone use?

Post by JackDaydream »

Empiricist-Bruno wrote: March 12th, 2022, 6:31 pm https://gabbwireless.com/blog/phones-up-empathy-down/

As someone who holds on dearly to beliefs that the vast majority of people reject, (I think communication using machines is communication by machines and therefore communication by machines cannot put people in touch with each other but only put people in touch with machines) I find that the article above validates my views: machines aren't empathic and the more we connect our children with them, the less empathetic they eventually become. I think eventually, as they grow into adult hood, they will have cause to blame those who linked them to the machines.

I would like to dig a bit deeper into this issue by making one key point: A an empiricist, I believe the world exist mechanically in the mind and livingly outside the mind. The world's existence is dual in its totality. And this divide is very well noticable as you compare live discussions to phone text discussions, for instance. When you use your phone, any other that you believe to be in touch with through the phone comes from and exists mechanically in the mind. In live discussions, the person you talk to still get to exist inside your mind in a mechanical, imaginary way but with this type of discussion, you need to be open to the possibility that you can be lively interfered with, and that gives empathy there a chance to grow roots.

So, the belief that human communication can take place in such places as these electronic forums, social media apps, is all false which leaves the question open of knowing what then is the best way to describe the exchanges taking place in such electronic environment. My answer is that what takes place in such medium is open thoughts. You cannot say things through electronic devices, you can only think things. It is an error to think of whatever you write onto a computer or phone as "your say"; it's always "your thoughts".

This angle obviously requires clarity about the difference between a person's thoughts and a person's words. Thoughts never commit a person to a course of action but words in the real world are normally taken as a commitment. You can think of what you want to order at the restaurant but until you speak up to the person taking your order, there is no commitment. Once you have spoken, live worldly action will ensue.

But when people are actors and putting on a performance for spectators, the words they say belong to the company they work with, and since this is a demonstration of some author's work, such words in a play may or may not be considered words; but simply the author's thought given to its actors for the play.

So, in order to know whether you are faced with thought or speech of a person will depend upon the circumstances, and those circumstances may not always allow you to tell the difference, given your angle on what you are observing.

Ok, so now we know. I haven't said anything here (because it's just not possible) but you may be able to make something out of that, yes, no?

The consequences of not recognizing electronic forms of communication as a human form of communication or perhaps as not being fully a form of human communication, is key to human progress towards a more empathetic world and failure to recognize this may lead to a world where empathy is sorely lacking, with wars, destruction of the environment, etc.
Phones play such a significant role in people's lives that it may be that the distraction and preoccupation makes them less present in face to face interaction. This can give rise to a lack of empathy because it involves less mindful listening awareness. I used to feel so frustrated by others who were fiddling with their phones while I was meeting them, but I am aware that I am starting to be distracted by my phone and less focused on people who I am interacting with in real life, often wishing to look at replies on this site. Sometimes, I choose not to take my phone out for this reason.

However, the other side of the coin is that people can be fairly demanding in the expectation of calls. I find that friends expect to be able to dial and get through whenever they wish to and seem annoyed if I don't have my phone on or with me. But, if out in a shop or a cafe it can be difficult if someone is wishing to elaborate on some personal incident or problem and I sometimes find it hard to tune in on an empathetic level if I am out doing things. But, it is easy to begin to expect instant communication and I admit that at times I have been wishing to talk to a friend and can't get through. So, part of the problem may be that there is an expectation of instant communication by most people having mobile phones.

Also, it is questionable whether communication on phones is the same as face to face. During the time of lockdown people became reliant on communication by machines and this may have continued a lot even though lockdown restrictions have eased. But part of the problem is that such communication lacks some of the dimensions of human interaction in real life, even with video calls. It is a virtual form of interaction, of disembodied voices and images rather than human contact in it's most essential form, so it is likely that the emotional quality will be extremely different than when people meet, person to person.
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Re: Is empathy in people reduced by phone use?

Post by AgentSmith »

Empathy, to work, needs data on expressions (face + body language). Talking on the phone, you can't judge a person all that well for obvious reasons, but I'm told, voice (subtle changes in pitch, emphasis) can be as useful as (say) a smile to read a person (if you're the Terminator, Hmmmm).

With text messages we have emojis to accompany and convey our mood or reaction as some like to call it.

Some people are emotionally blunted (as Hermione Granger in Harry Potter tells someone "you have the emotional range of a teaspoon." I wonder if she ever watched Disney's Beauty and the Beast). This is their happy face :| and this is their sad face :| and this is their don't care face :| Such people's feelings are undecipherable, they are and remain enigmatic.

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Re: Is empathy in people reduced by phone use?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Phones encourage connection. In 'olden times', I used to spend hours on the phone to my mates. That was in the days of land-line phone that only did talking. Before those days, my counterparts communicated by letter, because that's all they had. It's easy to moan about phones, and their possible effects, but they do encourage connection, if indirect (i.e. not face-to-face). I can't see how empathy might be adversely affected just by connection. But maybe the problem you refer to is not the increase in communication or connectivity, but the gradual demise of face-to-face contact\\\/ \\that makes more sense to me...? 🤔
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Re: Is empathy in people reduced by phone use?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Pattern-chaser wrote: March 13th, 2022, 8:07 am Phones encourage connection. In 'olden times', I used to spend hours on the phone to my mates. That was in the days of land-line phone that only did talking. Before those days, my counterparts communicated by letter, because that's all they had. It's easy to moan about phones, and their possible effects, but they do encourage connection, if indirect (i.e. not face-to-face). I can't see how empathy might be adversely affected just by connection. But maybe the problem you refer to is not the increase in communication or connectivity, but the gradual demise of face-to-face contact? That makes more sense to me...? 🤔
Sorry about the typos. 😊
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Re: Is empathy in people reduced by phone use?

Post by heracleitos »

There are also people that you somehow have to communicate with but whom you do not like.

Interposing a bunch of machines in between is actually a good solution. It spares me from accidentally leaking the truth about what I really think about them.

Modern communications have also allowed me to live in SE Asia instead of the EU.

The EU -- the West in general, actually -- is an area of the world that I deeply resent living in. I grew up there, but I am so happy to be elsewhere now. Still, I no longer "hate" that place because I no longer have to physically live there anymore.

It required moving all professional activity to the internet. I really love it, because it gives me the freedom that I want.
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Re: Is empathy in people reduced by phone use?

Post by LuckyR »

heracleitos wrote: April 16th, 2022, 10:44 pm There are also people that you somehow have to communicate with but whom you do not like.

Interposing a bunch of machines in between is actually a good solution. It spares me from accidentally leaking the truth about what I really think about them.

Modern communications have also allowed me to live in SE Asia instead of the EU.

The EU -- the West in general, actually -- is an area of the world that I deeply resent living in. I grew up there, but I am so happy to be elsewhere now. Still, I no longer "hate" that place because I no longer have to physically live there anymore.

It required moving all professional activity to the internet. I really love it, because it gives me the freedom that I want.
But are you painting EU folks you meet now electronically with the brush of your past negative EU experience, or are you evaluating them on their own (electronic) merits?
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Re: Is empathy in people reduced by phone use?

Post by heracleitos »

LuckyR wrote: April 17th, 2022, 2:04 am But are you painting EU folks you meet now electronically with the brush of your past negative EU experience, or are you evaluating them on their own (electronic) merits?
I have always had friends from the EU. I still do.

We actually sit together every evening in the same place. There is just one person not from the EU. He is from Canada. What we all have in common, is the same profound resentment for living in the West.

My friends are invariably other nomad "dissidents" from the West. There is even one friend from Germany who also joins me in the afternoon at the club pool, when I work on my phone from there.

I do not like the government, and especially the laws, in the West, but I think that quite a few people in the West are just victims themselves.

The western guys over here who do buy into western ideology -- which is probably the majority -- are not our friends.

We regularly reject a person like that, when he tries to join at our table. But then again, if he believes that the West is so great, why doesn't he move back there? In that case, he is clearly not putting his money where his mouth is.
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