What is the Significance of Sleep and the Nocturnal Side of Consciousness?

[Sy Borg]

The idea of 'dreamtime' and 'vision quests' is the other aspect of dream reality, not simply about asking about the nature of reality but as the idea of transformation and healing. Shamanic traditions look for this potential and the experience of taking hallucinogenics in this context is so different from that of taking substances in drug subcultures as a form of 'recreation'. However, many 'spiritual' practitioners do warn about the use of drugs and it may be that it one of the areas where there is a lot of risk, as opposed to other means of symbolic experiences. It is hard to know to what extent religious traditions arose in conjunction with visionary quests, artificially, or naturally. Even some forms of 'natural' questing, like practices of astral projection, as a way of cultivating 'out of body experiences' may have potential dangers.

Yes, if you don't have expertise and you open up a machine and pull bits in and out to see what's going on, at some point you will damage the machine. That's why I chose not to try to induce peak experiences, even though they were undoubtedly the best I have ever felt. If they come to me, great, if not, no drama.

Taking Shamanic hallucinogens is indeed recreation (no need for quotes) for psychonauts. Clinical studies suggest that using entheogens to break through sticky personal issues is therapeutic. Repeated use for fun, though, would probably scramble one's brains somewhat. I'd be nervous about taking the stuff. I don't seek otherworldly experiences because I find our usual reality plenty tricky enough to navigate without adding complications.

Whatever, there is certainly a need to escape our normal waking state. Sleep usually does the trick but history makes clear that humans have a strong urge to experience alternate states of waking consciousness. The damage caused by sleep denial - the inability to escape normal consciousness - famously damages all body systems.

Simply, almost everyone desperately wants to leave waking consciousness each night to either spend time in the Dreamtime or in the Void.

However real or unreal dreaming consciousness is seen it does seem that most people look forward to it. Also, so many people struggle to sleep and more and more people are looking for sleeping tablets. To be denied of sleep can make people so unwell. I knew someone who had barely slept for weeks and she ended up falling down in the road. At the time, she was assessed with a view to whether it was a suicide attempt and she had to explain that she simply could barely sleep for a long time. I often find that I sleep well every other night. I once did a period of working nights for 6 months and it really messed up my patterns, not just sleeping but eating ones too. There is a link between people who work nights for years and many health problems. Also, it is often believed that going to bed early and getting up early is healthier but I have to admit that is rare for me to be in bed before midnight. The patterns may be partly habit related but it does seem that people have different body clock patterns and some seem to need more sleep than others.

It's an odd thing. People desperately want to be conscious, not to die - or they will lose that which they desperately want to lose every night.

[JackDaydream]

The idea of 'dreamtime' and 'vision quests' is the other aspect of dream reality, not simply about asking about the nature of reality but as the idea of transformation and healing. Shamanic traditions look for this potential and the experience of taking hallucinogenics in this context is so different from that of taking substances in drug subcultures as a form of 'recreation'. However, many 'spiritual' practitioners do warn about the use of drugs and it may be that it one of the areas where there is a lot of risk, as opposed to other means of symbolic experiences. It is hard to know to what extent religious traditions arose in conjunction with visionary quests, artificially, or naturally. Even some forms of 'natural' questing, like practices of astral projection, as a way of cultivating 'out of body experiences' may have potential dangers.

Yes, if you don't have expertise and you open up a machine and pull bits in and out to see what's going on, at some point you will damage the machine. That's why I chose not to try to induce peak experiences, even though they were undoubtedly the best I have ever felt. If they come to me, great, if not, no drama.

Taking Shamanic hallucinogens is indeed recreation (no need for quotes) for psychonauts. Clinical studies suggest that using entheogens to break through sticky personal issues is therapeutic. Repeated use for fun, though, would probably scramble one's brains somewhat. I'd be nervous about taking the stuff. I don't seek otherworldly experiences because I find our usual reality plenty tricky enough to navigate without adding complications.

Whatever, there is certainly a need to escape our normal waking state. Sleep usually does the trick but history makes clear that humans have a strong urge to experience alternate states of waking consciousness. The damage caused by sleep denial - the inability to escape normal consciousness - famously damages all body systems.

Simply, almost everyone desperately wants to leave waking consciousness each night to either spend time in the Dreamtime or in the Void.

However real or unreal dreaming consciousness is seen it does seem that most people look forward to it. Also, so many people struggle to sleep and more and more people are looking for sleeping tablets. To be denied of sleep can make people so unwell. I knew someone who had barely slept for weeks and she ended up falling down in the road. At the time, she was assessed with a view to whether it was a suicide attempt and she had to explain that she simply could barely sleep for a long time. I often find that I sleep well every other night. I once did a period of working nights for 6 months and it really messed up my patterns, not just sleeping but eating ones too. There is a link between people who work nights for years and many health problems. Also, it is often believed that going to bed early and getting up early is healthier but I have to admit that is rare for me to be in bed before midnight. The patterns may be partly habit related but it does seem that people have different body clock patterns and some seem to need more sleep than others.

It's an odd thing. People desperately want to be conscious, not to die - or they will lose that which they desperately want to lose every night.

The paradox between wishing to lose consciousness in sleep and the fear of death may be related to a sense of ego identity. It is one thing to touch oblivion for a while and possibly another to enter it forever. Some of the fear may be about some uncertainty about whether death is the end or not. It is interesting to consider whether people who believe in life after death or not are more afraid. I think that I was more afraid when I believed in it as very likely. However, I have known people who are religious say that it would be a 'swindle' if death is the end.

Nevertheless, with the unconsciousness of sleep ego identity doesn't dissolve. Also, there is the intermittent dream experience and the sense of personal identity continues in dreams mostly. It is probably rare for people to dream of being someone other than oneself. Also, when one goes to sleep it is not with a sense of permanent ending, as the extinction of ego consciousness. I am getting ready for bed currently, hoping to get to sleep as soon as I can, but if I thought that I would never wake again it is likely that I may be less eager to fall asleep too quickly. I wonder how others feel about this aspect of sleep, as opposed to the unconsciousness of death.

[Sy Borg]

Yes, it's ego. The useful delusion that we are separate to the rest of the world, which helps us maintain the illusion of separateness long enough to produce more entities under the same delusion.

I tend to disagree about the self remaining during sleep. Generally, once I've gone to bed, I am either absent or being kept awake by arthritis, reflux or nerve damage. Absence is definitely better than tossing and turning, while some other obscure part of me decides to hurt.

But yes, if you knew this was your last sleep, you'd probably be in no hurry to drop off. Then again, it's always possible, though often improbable, that we will not wake up after going to bed. The good news is that, if it happens, it won't make any difference to us. We will simply return to being integrated with the Earth after our little adventure into selfdom, after which it's someone else's turn. Poor buggers lol

[JackDaydream]

Yes, it's ego. The useful delusion that we are separate to the rest of the world, which helps us maintain the illusion of separateness long enough to produce more entities under the same delusion.

I tend to disagree about the self remaining during sleep. Generally, once I've gone to bed, I am either absent or being kept awake by arthritis, reflux or nerve damage. Absence is definitely better than tossing and turning, while some other obscure part of me decides to hurt.

But yes, if you knew this was your last sleep, you'd probably be in no hurry to drop off. Then again, it's always possible, though often improbable, that we will not wake up after going to bed. The good news is that, if it happens, it won't make any difference to us. We will simply return to being integrated with the Earth after our little adventure into selfdom, after which it's someone else's turn. Poor buggers lol

The way you describe the reintegration after 'a little adventure into selfdom' does seem fairly compatible with the underlying approach of the Eastern mystics. The idea of Nirvana is also interesting in this respect because it does signify the idea of the extinction of consciousness, even if it is within the larger cycles of rebirths and group souls beyond conscious identity.

What you describe as being 'absent' or not is to a large extent related to the body in sleep. Some people are kept awake by various pains and being too hot or too cold. Also, my broken bed does come into it to some extent at times, because I haven't managed to find a way of fixing it.I have been managing to sleep fairly well at the bottom of the bed though, because it is like sliding down a slope. It is actually a fairly unique way of sleeping and a different form of sleep awareness from lying with the back against the mattress. It is almost like in between lying and sitting, which is almost conducive to meditation and it may have even prompted me to write this thread at this particular moment in time.

Of course, apart from the body in getting to sleep there is the issue of rumination and that is what often keeps me awake. The interaction between the physical and the mental is a strong aspect though, especially in relation to caffeine. Some people find it the most critical issue and I find it one factor, but not the only one. Generally, the tendency to overthink can come into it and the whole process of relaxation is both physical and mental, as well as emotional. In extremes of clinical depression people often sleep excessively and find it hard to get out of bed at all. So, it is all about balance of body and mind, which does go back to the issue of mindfulness and, there is the question as to whether sleeping goes away from mindfulness awareness completely or not. Can people be mindful within dreams as well?

[Sy Borg]

Jack, I think that when you get a new bed, you will think less about sleep :)

Really, when given a choice of struggling to find some comfort in an arthritic body or on a crappy bed and being absent, it seems like a no contest. As long as you wake up, of course.

Because I had problems with nightmares as a child, I became determined to break into my dreams and force myself awake before bad things happened. I succeeded a few times. The most interesting was a falling dream where I consciously forced myself to fly, and I swooped up in the air. It was great for just a moment when a mountain of skyscrapers suddenly appeared in front of me. I woke just before crashing into them, as per the usual nightmare. No escape! :)

[JackDaydream]

Jack, I think that when you get a new bed, you will think less about sleep

Really, when given a choice of struggling to find some comfort in an arthritic body or on a crappy bed and being absent, it seems like a no contest. As long as you wake up, of course.

Because I had problems with nightmares as a child, I became determined to break into my dreams and force myself awake before bad things happened. I succeeded a few times. The most interesting was a falling dream where I consciously forced myself to fly, and I swooped up in the air. It was great for just a moment when a mountain of skyscrapers suddenly appeared in front of me. I woke just before crashing into them, as per the usual nightmare. No escape!

I'm not planning to get a new bed because the one I have belongs to this house and I am planning to move shortly.
I did think a lot about sleeping for a long time and the worst was when I used to finish work at 9pm and start again at 7am. I often used not to sleep at all. Strangely, most of my friends struggle to sleep so we are often discussing sleep a lot, although talking on the phone late at night can be worse than drinking coffee.

In some dream theories, falling dreams are meant to be related to the jolt of entering the astral dimension. I often have falling dreams and wake up. One experience which I also have on the borderline as I am falling asleep is seeing my room and there being strange debris on the floor. I used to have some dreams where I was in my room flying around the room beneath the ceiling, but I would find dreams of flying around skyscrapers a lot worse. But, with some bad dreams it is such a relief to wake up and find it is only a dream and often in bad life experiences wish that I could wake up and find that I had been merely dreaming.

[JackDaydream]

I am adding a troubling dream which I had about a week ago, while using the supplement, Melatonin. I have stopped using it the dream was rather disturbing and was about the end of the world. In the dream, everything became dark and an enormous cavern opened up in the earth and I could see dead bodies within this large hole. I was so relieved to wake up, but felt unnerved by the dream.

Even without taking anything I am inclined to have very intense dreams. I had a dream of the moon splitting into two parts. I wonder why some people have more unusual dreams than others, and how much is down to personal psychology. I do have a few recurring dreams, and I am inclined to think that these are likely to be based on personal unresolved issues. For anyone who may read this thread, I am asking do you have any dreams which disturb or unnerve you?

[Sy Borg]

I sometimes use Melatonin and it increased my tendency to dream. Nothing memorable, though. Thankfully (touch wood), my days of regular nightmares are long past. Yes, dreams are often about unresolved issues. Your body may have clocked off for a rest, but the poor old brain is still struggling away in the dead of night, still searching for answers.

The worst dream I had was when I was young. I'd come home from an outing and the living room was full of ghouls, vampires, bats, cobwebs, the works. Then Mum came to me and told me not to be scared - and then she suddenly turned and she had vampire teeth and was about to attack me when I awoke. To be fair, poor Mum did nothing to deserve such harsh dream representation! I suspect it was my fear of school bullies infused with the ending of the Count Yorga, Vampire movie, which we saw at the drive-in. It scared Mum and me so much that we were closely tailing Dad between the car and the house haha. I think that's how she was drawn into the dream.

On the bright side, at least in your dream you were witnessing death rather than in danger of it. After all, we are all doomed, it's just a matter of how and when. Then we surrender our brief journey into (slight) independence and we are once again return to the Earth to help form other slightly independent "cells". Of course, a brief stay at the ISS makes clear just how "independent" of, and separate from, the Earth we are.

In a way the Moon has split into two parts. The Americans survey the near side and the Chinese are checking out the dark side :)

[cognition]

Hi,

There is "Yoga Nidra" which might answer some of your questions.....

A book on it is referenced by:
ISBN-10 ‏ : ‎ 8185787123
ISBN-13 ‏ : ‎ 978-8185787121


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The waking world and the dream world, from the point of view of the Jiva, are two aspects of the function of the mind. The mind projects itself in perception, both in waking and dream. The mind is active, and it gets tired of activity. It ceases from activity when it is too much fatigued. The complete cessation of the activity of the mind, due to exhaustion, is sleep, known as Sushupti.

That is called Sushupti, or deep sleep, where – na kancana kamam kamayate – one desires nothing, because the mind has withdrawn itself from both the physical and subtle objects. Na kancana svapnam pasyati: It does not dream also, because even psychic activity has ceased. Tat sushuptam: This is complete absorption of the mind into itself. But this absorption is of an unconscious nature.

The mind, while it appears to be a little conscious in dream, and more conscious in waking, is not conscious at all in deep sleep. This has given rise to an erroneous school of philosophy which concludes that consciousness is possible only when there is contact of the mind with objects. The Nyaya and the Vaiseshika hold this view. Unless there is contact of the Atman, they say, with objects, there cannot be knowledge. The real nature of the Atman, while it is not in contact with things, is not knowledge, say the Nyaya and the Vaiseshika. They are not right because they cannot explain how this unconscious element creeps into the state of sleep. The reason is not merely that consciousness has no contact with objects but that it has some other obstruction to the revelation of knowledge in deep sleep.

The third foot of the Atman, the third phase of its analysis, is deep sleep, where all perceptions and cognitions converge into a single mode of the mind – Ekibhutah. It becomes a mass of consciousness, which is not projected outside; – Prajnana-ghanah. There is no modification of the mind, and so there is no external consciousness. We are not aware of the world outside in the state of sleep because of the absence of Vrittis, or psychoses, of the mind. Only when the mind becomes extrovert can it have consciousness of the outer world, whether in dream or in waking. But, there is no agitation of the mind, of that nature, in sleep. It is as if there is a homogeneous mass of all perceptions, where all the Samskaras, Vasanas, commingle into a single mode, or condition, instead of there being many cognitive psychoses. Anandamayo anandabhuk cetomukhah prajnah: It is all bliss. The happiness of deep sleep is greater than all other forms of happiness or pleasure born of sense-contact. It is filled with Ananda, bliss, delight, satisfaction. Even a king cannot be happy if he does not have sleep for a week. All the worlds may be given to you, but if you will not be allowed to sleep, you would rather say, "Let me sleep. I do not want any world. You take your kingdom back, all your empire. You allow me to sleep peacefully." An empire cannot give you that happiness, the power which you may seem to have over the world cannot give you that satisfaction, which you have while you are alone in deep sleep, unbefriended, unprotected, unseen, uncognised, unpossessed of anything. While you are possessed of so many things in the world, with all the retinue of a kingdom, with the power that you wield in society, you have a satisfaction; but it is no comparison with the happiness of sleep, where you have no empire, no retinue, no power conceivable, and nobody even to look at your face. In that condition, when you are alone, you are more happy than when you are in the midst of people in the waking state. Just imagine your condition. While you are alone, you are so happy, and while you are in the midst of many people, you are agitated, vexed, worried and complain about everything. You make no complaints in sleep, and you want nothing. Look at it! When you are fast asleep, you want nothing, you ask for nothing, you do not want anybody even to see you or speak to you, and, yet, you are more happy there than when you are an emperor. From where has this happiness come? From where has this Anandamayatva come to you? This subject is dealt with in the Mantra which describes the third phase of the Atman. Your real nature is aloneness, not sociability. Your real nature is Kevalata, not Indriya-Samyoga with Vishayas, objects. Your real nature is singularity, not multiplicity. Your real nature is a total transcendence of all sensory and mental phenomena, not contact with objects. Therefore you are Anandamaya, Anandabhuk: filled with bliss, enjoying bliss.

What do you eat in deep sleep, which gives you so much satisfaction? Ananda alone is your food, not bread, dal, kheer, rasagulla, laddu. You get nothing of that kind in sleep, and yet you are more happy there than when you have a sumptuous dinner or a meal. All the luncheons of the world cannot give you that satisfaction which you have in sleep due to there being only the food of Ananda. You eat Ananda, swallow Ananda, consume Ananda and exist as Ananda. And, the Bliss of Pure Being is known as Ananda. This is what you enjoy in deep sleep. And when you get up from sleep, with what refreshment you come out! From where has that energy come to you? None was there to talk to you, nobody spoke to you, no one gave you anything, you possessed nothing, there was no property, you took no tonic; no nutritious food was there, and yet you came out of sleep with strength, well refreshed, and with a readiness to do more activity. From where did you get this power, this strength, this energy, this Ananda, this delight? Wonderful! You cannot answer this question. When you had nothing, when you possessed nothing, how did this Ananda come to you, and how did this power come to you? It came, no doubt, from another source altogether, which is not of this world.

Futile it is to run after the shadows of the world of objects. Foolishly you go to the things of the world which only tire your senses and drive you back to sleep, giving you nothing, giving you false promises, tantalising you, making you look foolish. This is the world; and yet, again and again, do you go to the world, forgetting what you saw in the state of sleep. We forget the sleep experience. This is the malady of all our waking toils. If you could remember what you had in sleep, you will never come back to this waking world of multiplicity. If consciousness were there in sleep, you would not like to return to this waking world. But you remain unconscious. So, you arc driven back by an impulse of work, once again, to the waking world. Consciousness of sleep is equal to Samadhi. If sleep is to be coupled with consciousness, it becomes Atma-Sakshatkara, the realisation of the Atman. This is what they call Supcrconsciousness. This is Nirvana, Moksha, Kevalata – Liberation. This is your real nature. This is why you are full of Ananda in sleep. You go to the blessedness of eternity and infinity in sleep, but you are not aware of it.

Anandamayo anandabhuk cetomukhah: What is the instrument through which you enjoy this Ananda? Not the senses, not the mind. While there were nineteen mouths for you in the waking and dreaming states, there are no such mouths in deep sleep. Here, the mouth is not the mind or the senses, but consciousness alone is the mouth – Cetvmukhah. Consciousness enjoys bliss. Who enjoys bliss? Consciousness alone, is the answer. It is 'Chit' that experiences 'Ananda', not the Indriyas or the Manas, the senses or the mind. In deep sleep there is only Ananda experienced by Chit. You experience Satchidananda, here, Consciousness-Being, as such. But something else happens there, a very intriguing factor starts working, which covers the consciousness, and makes you come back to the waking life with the same foolishness with which you entered the state of sleep.

This is Prajna, the consciousness which is in its own pristine nature, knowing everything and not being associated with anything external. This is the transcendent state in relation to waking and dreaming, the cause of all experiences in waking and dreaming, the Karana-Avastha, in relation to which waking and dreaming are effects, Karya-Avastha. In correspondence with this Prajna, or the causal condition of Anandamayatva of the Jiva, there is a Universal Causal Condition, known as Isvara. While the waking consciousness, individually, is called Visva, it is called Taijasa in dream, and Prajna in the deep sleep state. Correspondingly, from the cosmic level, we have Virat in waking, Hiranyagarbha in dreaming, and Isvara in deep sleep. While we, ordinarily, hold that the impressions of waking create dream and an adjournment of all the activities of these impressions is sleep, thus deducing dream from waking and sleep from both, in the cosmic level we cannot make such deductions, because a reverse process takes place there which seems to be a prior condition to the individual state. Isvara being the cause of Hiranyagarbha, and Hiranyagarbha being the cause of Virat. The relationship between the individual and the cosmic, between Visva and Virat, Taijasa and Hiranyagarbha, Prajna and Isvara is one of organic integrality, and a realisation of this organic connection of being will land the Jiva in Isvaratva and make it at once omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent.

[JackDaydream]

I sometimes use Melatonin and it increased my tendency to dream. Nothing memorable, though. Thankfully (touch wood), my days of regular nightmares are long past. Yes, dreams are often about unresolved issues. Your body may have clocked off for a rest, but the poor old brain is still struggling away in the dead of night, still searching for answers.

The worst dream I had was when I was young. I'd come home from an outing and the living room was full of ghouls, vampires, bats, cobwebs, the works. Then Mum came to me and told me not to be scared - and then she suddenly turned and she had vampire teeth and was about to attack me when I awoke. To be fair, poor Mum did nothing to deserve such harsh dream representation! I suspect it was my fear of school bullies infused with the ending of the Count Yorga, Vampire movie, which we saw at the drive-in. It scared Mum and me so much that we were closely tailing Dad between the car and the house haha. I think that's how she was drawn into the dream.

On the bright side, at least in your dream you were witnessing death rather than in danger of it. After all, we are all doomed, it's just a matter of how and when. Then we surrender our brief journey into (slight) independence and we are once again return to the Earth to help form other slightly independent "cells". Of course, a brief stay at the ISS makes clear just how "independent" of, and separate from, the Earth we are.

In a way the Moon has split into two parts. The Americans survey the near side and the Chinese are checking out the dark side

I chose to try Melatonin because some people I worked with found it helpful. As you are not prone to nightmares it is probably okay for you, and the couple of people who I worked with were probably not vivid dreamers. Generally, though I don't flee from dreams but I found the one which I had was one of the worst. That is because I am more afraid of the end of the world than personal death because I know that I will die but some day but I would like the world to continue.

As far as your dream about your mother turning into a vampire, it leads me to think of a memory which was about surreal horror even though it was not a dream. It was when my mother and I went on a ghost train ride at the seaside when I was about 12. We got on and a man behind us was chatting. The ride in the dark began and I could feel see ghostly images and feel fingers touching me but I wasn't afraid. However, I could hear my mother screaming and screaming and when I was asking her what was the matter she just continued to scream for the whole duration of the ride. When we got off, my poor mother was trembling and my father who was waiting had to take her for a drink in a pub to calm her down. She said that the man behind us had been touching her neck throughout the ride and she thought he was going to strangle her. I was never entirely sure whether it was my mother's overactive imagination or if it ever happened but it was the only time we ever went on a ghost train.

The nocturnal world and its gothic side is such a contrast to the idea of rest. Anyway, today I am off to see a possible new room to rent, so I may escape from my sleepless nights. I also need to move as soon as I can because I am being bitten by bed bugs most nights. Other people in the house are too, and I have so many bites on my arms and legs that it is a good job that I am not wishing to go out with short sleeves or shorts because I have so many bites that I look like I am being eaten at night by vampires.

[JackDaydream]

Hi,

There is "Yoga Nidra" which might answer some of your questions.....

A book on it is referenced by:
ISBN-10 ‏ : ‎ 8185787123
ISBN-13 ‏ : ‎ 978-8185787121


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The waking world and the dream world, from the point of view of the Jiva, are two aspects of the function of the mind. The mind projects itself in perception, both in waking and dream. The mind is active, and it gets tired of activity. It ceases from activity when it is too much fatigued. The complete cessation of the activity of the mind, due to exhaustion, is sleep, known as Sushupti.

That is called Sushupti, or deep sleep, where – na kancana kamam kamayate – one desires nothing, because the mind has withdrawn itself from both the physical and subtle objects. Na kancana svapnam pasyati: It does not dream also, because even psychic activity has ceased. Tat sushuptam: This is complete absorption of the mind into itself. But this absorption is of an unconscious nature.

The mind, while it appears to be a little conscious in dream, and more conscious in waking, is not conscious at all in deep sleep. This has given rise to an erroneous school of philosophy which concludes that consciousness is possible only when there is contact of the mind with objects. The Nyaya and the Vaiseshika hold this view. Unless there is contact of the Atman, they say, with objects, there cannot be knowledge. The real nature of the Atman, while it is not in contact with things, is not knowledge, say the Nyaya and the Vaiseshika. They are not right because they cannot explain how this unconscious element creeps into the state of sleep. The reason is not merely that consciousness has no contact with objects but that it has some other obstruction to the revelation of knowledge in deep sleep.

The third foot of the Atman, the third phase of its analysis, is deep sleep, where all perceptions and cognitions converge into a single mode of the mind – Ekibhutah. It becomes a mass of consciousness, which is not projected outside; – Prajnana-ghanah. There is no modification of the mind, and so there is no external consciousness. We are not aware of the world outside in the state of sleep because of the absence of Vrittis, or psychoses, of the mind. Only when the mind becomes extrovert can it have consciousness of the outer world, whether in dream or in waking. But, there is no agitation of the mind, of that nature, in sleep. It is as if there is a homogeneous mass of all perceptions, where all the Samskaras, Vasanas, commingle into a single mode, or condition, instead of there being many cognitive psychoses. Anandamayo anandabhuk cetomukhah prajnah: It is all bliss. The happiness of deep sleep is greater than all other forms of happiness or pleasure born of sense-contact. It is filled with Ananda, bliss, delight, satisfaction. Even a king cannot be happy if he does not have sleep for a week. All the worlds may be given to you, but if you will not be allowed to sleep, you would rather say, "Let me sleep. I do not want any world. You take your kingdom back, all your empire. You allow me to sleep peacefully." An empire cannot give you that happiness, the power which you may seem to have over the world cannot give you that satisfaction, which you have while you are alone in deep sleep, unbefriended, unprotected, unseen, uncognised, unpossessed of anything. While you are possessed of so many things in the world, with all the retinue of a kingdom, with the power that you wield in society, you have a satisfaction; but it is no comparison with the happiness of sleep, where you have no empire, no retinue, no power conceivable, and nobody even to look at your face. In that condition, when you are alone, you are more happy than when you are in the midst of people in the waking state. Just imagine your condition. While you are alone, you are so happy, and while you are in the midst of many people, you are agitated, vexed, worried and complain about everything. You make no complaints in sleep, and you want nothing. Look at it! When you are fast asleep, you want nothing, you ask for nothing, you do not want anybody even to see you or speak to you, and, yet, you are more happy there than when you are an emperor. From where has this happiness come? From where has this Anandamayatva come to you? This subject is dealt with in the Mantra which describes the third phase of the Atman. Your real nature is aloneness, not sociability. Your real nature is Kevalata, not Indriya-Samyoga with Vishayas, objects. Your real nature is singularity, not multiplicity. Your real nature is a total transcendence of all sensory and mental phenomena, not contact with objects. Therefore you are Anandamaya, Anandabhuk: filled with bliss, enjoying bliss.

What do you eat in deep sleep, which gives you so much satisfaction? Ananda alone is your food, not bread, dal, kheer, rasagulla, laddu. You get nothing of that kind in sleep, and yet you are more happy there than when you have a sumptuous dinner or a meal. All the luncheons of the world cannot give you that satisfaction which you have in sleep due to there being only the food of Ananda. You eat Ananda, swallow Ananda, consume Ananda and exist as Ananda. And, the Bliss of Pure Being is known as Ananda. This is what you enjoy in deep sleep. And when you get up from sleep, with what refreshment you come out! From where has that energy come to you? None was there to talk to you, nobody spoke to you, no one gave you anything, you possessed nothing, there was no property, you took no tonic; no nutritious food was there, and yet you came out of sleep with strength, well refreshed, and with a readiness to do more activity. From where did you get this power, this strength, this energy, this Ananda, this delight? Wonderful! You cannot answer this question. When you had nothing, when you possessed nothing, how did this Ananda come to you, and how did this power come to you? It came, no doubt, from another source altogether, which is not of this world.

Futile it is to run after the shadows of the world of objects. Foolishly you go to the things of the world which only tire your senses and drive you back to sleep, giving you nothing, giving you false promises, tantalising you, making you look foolish. This is the world; and yet, again and again, do you go to the world, forgetting what you saw in the state of sleep. We forget the sleep experience. This is the malady of all our waking toils. If you could remember what you had in sleep, you will never come back to this waking world of multiplicity. If consciousness were there in sleep, you would not like to return to this waking world. But you remain unconscious. So, you arc driven back by an impulse of work, once again, to the waking world. Consciousness of sleep is equal to Samadhi. If sleep is to be coupled with consciousness, it becomes Atma-Sakshatkara, the realisation of the Atman. This is what they call Supcrconsciousness. This is Nirvana, Moksha, Kevalata – Liberation. This is your real nature. This is why you are full of Ananda in sleep. You go to the blessedness of eternity and infinity in sleep, but you are not aware of it.

Anandamayo anandabhuk cetomukhah: What is the instrument through which you enjoy this Ananda? Not the senses, not the mind. While there were nineteen mouths for you in the waking and dreaming states, there are no such mouths in deep sleep. Here, the mouth is not the mind or the senses, but consciousness alone is the mouth – Cetvmukhah. Consciousness enjoys bliss. Who enjoys bliss? Consciousness alone, is the answer. It is 'Chit' that experiences 'Ananda', not the Indriyas or the Manas, the senses or the mind. In deep sleep there is only Ananda experienced by Chit. You experience Satchidananda, here, Consciousness-Being, as such. But something else happens there, a very intriguing factor starts working, which covers the consciousness, and makes you come back to the waking life with the same foolishness with which you entered the state of sleep.

This is Prajna, the consciousness which is in its own pristine nature, knowing everything and not being associated with anything external. This is the transcendent state in relation to waking and dreaming, the cause of all experiences in waking and dreaming, the Karana-Avastha, in relation to which waking and dreaming are effects, Karya-Avastha. In correspondence with this Prajna, or the causal condition of Anandamayatva of the Jiva, there is a Universal Causal Condition, known as Isvara. While the waking consciousness, individually, is called Visva, it is called Taijasa in dream, and Prajna in the deep sleep state. Correspondingly, from the cosmic level, we have Virat in waking, Hiranyagarbha in dreaming, and Isvara in deep sleep. While we, ordinarily, hold that the impressions of waking create dream and an adjournment of all the activities of these impressions is sleep, thus deducing dream from waking and sleep from both, in the cosmic level we cannot make such deductions, because a reverse process takes place there which seems to be a prior condition to the individual state. Isvara being the cause of Hiranyagarbha, and Hiranyagarbha being the cause of Virat. The relationship between the individual and the cosmic, between Visva and Virat, Taijasa and Hiranyagarbha, Prajna and Isvara is one of organic integrality, and a realisation of this organic connection of being will land the Jiva in Isvaratva and make it at once omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent.

Your post is very interesting and I will send you a fuller reply but it is one which I need to read several times I think about.

[cognition]

I apologize for possible "information overload".....some more thoughts are:

our essential Self is the highest reality. Even doubt and denial of it really affirm it. In our ordinary external life we are prone to believe that our eyes are the seers of objects. This is the uncritical opinion of the common man. But it is not difficult to perceive that the eyes by themselves have not the power to know things independently. The matter comes into high relief in the states of dream and deep sleep, when, even if the eyes be kept open, nothing external can be seen or observed. No sense-organ seems to function in these states. The ears, even if they are kept open, cannot hear sounds. If we place a few particles of sugar on the tongue of a sleeping man, he will produce no reaction and have no taste of it. The very existence of a body is then, for all practical purposes, negatived. The reason, as you will immediately understand it, is that the mind in these two states is withdrawn from the body and maintains no contact with the senses of knowledge. When the mind pervades and activates the senses, they seem to work as intelligent agents of knowledge. But then they are deprived of relation with the mind, they lose all their value. The mind is the real perceiver, and to it even the sense organs, such as the eyes, stand in the position of objects.

But deeper analysis has shown us that even the mind has an objective character, inasmuch as it is seen to be deprived of all life in the states of swoon and deep sleep. It is intelligent when it is awake but non-intelligent when it is made to wind up and adjourn its activities. A consciousness higher than the mind enlivens it and gives it meaning. The mind is a psychological organ, not a metaphysical principle. It is on account of the relative activities of the mind that we have a diversity of experience in the world. It is the mind that creates a gulf between the objects and our reactions to them, between existence and value. This distinction is made not only in respect of the things of the outside world but also the different aspects of our own personality, viz., the physical body made up of the five gross elements—earth, water, fire, air and ether-; the vital body consisting of the vital forces and the organs of motor activity; the mental body consisting of the faculties of understanding, feeling, willing, memory and the like, together with the five senses of perception; and a primal causal element which is experienced by us in the state of deep sleep. For purpose of simplicity we may use the term mind to designate all the psychological functions together. The manner in which the external world is felt by the mind is very much dependent on the latter's constitution and inherent shortcomings.

The above thesis is amply demonstrated in the several experiences of our daily life. Take for example a mother's attitude to her son. It appears that the son of an old mother had to go abroad on military service and did not return home for several years. A rumour seems to have been spread that the son passed away in a foreign land, and the shocking news broke the heart of the mother. The fact, however, was that the news was unfounded and the son was alive. Just imagine the situation wherein the condition of the son is the cause of psychological experience by the mother. It is not that the health and the life of the son is the cause of the happiness of the mother, for, if that were so, the mother, in the instance cited, ought to have been happy, because nothing untoward had actually happened to the son. Nor can it be said that the sorrow of the son, or even his death, is the cause of the sorrow of the mother, for the mother would have been quite happy even if the son were dead, if only that news would not reach her. What, then, is the central pivot of a conscious experience? Not so much an external object or an event as an internal feeling and a reaction.

[JackDaydream]

Hi,

There is "Yoga Nidra" which might answer some of your questions.....

A book on it is referenced by:
ISBN-10 ‏ : ‎ 8185787123
ISBN-13 ‏ : ‎ 978-8185787121


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The waking world and the dream world, from the point of view of the Jiva, are two aspects of the function of the mind. The mind projects itself in perception, both in waking and dream. The mind is active, and it gets tired of activity. It ceases from activity when it is too much fatigued. The complete cessation of the activity of the mind, due to exhaustion, is sleep, known as Sushupti.

That is called Sushupti, or deep sleep, where – na kancana kamam kamayate – one desires nothing, because the mind has withdrawn itself from both the physical and subtle objects. Na kancana svapnam pasyati: It does not dream also, because even psychic activity has ceased. Tat sushuptam: This is complete absorption of the mind into itself. But this absorption is of an unconscious nature.

The mind, while it appears to be a little conscious in dream, and more conscious in waking, is not conscious at all in deep sleep. This has given rise to an erroneous school of philosophy which concludes that consciousness is possible only when there is contact of the mind with objects. The Nyaya and the Vaiseshika hold this view. Unless there is contact of the Atman, they say, with objects, there cannot be knowledge. The real nature of the Atman, while it is not in contact with things, is not knowledge, say the Nyaya and the Vaiseshika. They are not right because they cannot explain how this unconscious element creeps into the state of sleep. The reason is not merely that consciousness has no contact with objects but that it has some other obstruction to the revelation of knowledge in deep sleep.

The third foot of the Atman, the third phase of its analysis, is deep sleep, where all perceptions and cognitions converge into a single mode of the mind – Ekibhutah. It becomes a mass of consciousness, which is not projected outside; – Prajnana-ghanah. There is no modification of the mind, and so there is no external consciousness. We are not aware of the world outside in the state of sleep because of the absence of Vrittis, or psychoses, of the mind. Only when the mind becomes extrovert can it have consciousness of the outer world, whether in dream or in waking. But, there is no agitation of the mind, of that nature, in sleep. It is as if there is a homogeneous mass of all perceptions, where all the Samskaras, Vasanas, commingle into a single mode, or condition, instead of there being many cognitive psychoses. Anandamayo anandabhuk cetomukhah prajnah: It is all bliss. The happiness of deep sleep is greater than all other forms of happiness or pleasure born of sense-contact. It is filled with Ananda, bliss, delight, satisfaction. Even a king cannot be happy if he does not have sleep for a week. All the worlds may be given to you, but if you will not be allowed to sleep, you would rather say, "Let me sleep. I do not want any world. You take your kingdom back, all your empire. You allow me to sleep peacefully." An empire cannot give you that happiness, the power which you may seem to have over the world cannot give you that satisfaction, which you have while you are alone in deep sleep, unbefriended, unprotected, unseen, uncognised, unpossessed of anything. While you are possessed of so many things in the world, with all the retinue of a kingdom, with the power that you wield in society, you have a satisfaction; but it is no comparison with the happiness of sleep, where you have no empire, no retinue, no power conceivable, and nobody even to look at your face. In that condition, when you are alone, you are more happy than when you are in the midst of people in the waking state. Just imagine your condition. While you are alone, you are so happy, and while you are in the midst of many people, you are agitated, vexed, worried and complain about everything. You make no complaints in sleep, and you want nothing. Look at it! When you are fast asleep, you want nothing, you ask for nothing, you do not want anybody even to see you or speak to you, and, yet, you are more happy there than when you are an emperor. From where has this happiness come? From where has this Anandamayatva come to you? This subject is dealt with in the Mantra which describes the third phase of the Atman. Your real nature is aloneness, not sociability. Your real nature is Kevalata, not Indriya-Samyoga with Vishayas, objects. Your real nature is singularity, not multiplicity. Your real nature is a total transcendence of all sensory and mental phenomena, not contact with objects. Therefore you are Anandamaya, Anandabhuk: filled with bliss, enjoying bliss.

What do you eat in deep sleep, which gives you so much satisfaction? Ananda alone is your food, not bread, dal, kheer, rasagulla, laddu. You get nothing of that kind in sleep, and yet you are more happy there than when you have a sumptuous dinner or a meal. All the luncheons of the world cannot give you that satisfaction which you have in sleep due to there being only the food of Ananda. You eat Ananda, swallow Ananda, consume Ananda and exist as Ananda. And, the Bliss of Pure Being is known as Ananda. This is what you enjoy in deep sleep. And when you get up from sleep, with what refreshment you come out! From where has that energy come to you? None was there to talk to you, nobody spoke to you, no one gave you anything, you possessed nothing, there was no property, you took no tonic; no nutritious food was there, and yet you came out of sleep with strength, well refreshed, and with a readiness to do more activity. From where did you get this power, this strength, this energy, this Ananda, this delight? Wonderful! You cannot answer this question. When you had nothing, when you possessed nothing, how did this Ananda come to you, and how did this power come to you? It came, no doubt, from another source altogether, which is not of this world.

Futile it is to run after the shadows of the world of objects. Foolishly you go to the things of the world which only tire your senses and drive you back to sleep, giving you nothing, giving you false promises, tantalising you, making you look foolish. This is the world; and yet, again and again, do you go to the world, forgetting what you saw in the state of sleep. We forget the sleep experience. This is the malady of all our waking toils. If you could remember what you had in sleep, you will never come back to this waking world of multiplicity. If consciousness were there in sleep, you would not like to return to this waking world. But you remain unconscious. So, you arc driven back by an impulse of work, once again, to the waking world. Consciousness of sleep is equal to Samadhi. If sleep is to be coupled with consciousness, it becomes Atma-Sakshatkara, the realisation of the Atman. This is what they call Supcrconsciousness. This is Nirvana, Moksha, Kevalata – Liberation. This is your real nature. This is why you are full of Ananda in sleep. You go to the blessedness of eternity and infinity in sleep, but you are not aware of it.

Anandamayo anandabhuk cetomukhah: What is the instrument through which you enjoy this Ananda? Not the senses, not the mind. While there were nineteen mouths for you in the waking and dreaming states, there are no such mouths in deep sleep. Here, the mouth is not the mind or the senses, but consciousness alone is the mouth – Cetvmukhah. Consciousness enjoys bliss. Who enjoys bliss? Consciousness alone, is the answer. It is 'Chit' that experiences 'Ananda', not the Indriyas or the Manas, the senses or the mind. In deep sleep there is only Ananda experienced by Chit. You experience Satchidananda, here, Consciousness-Being, as such. But something else happens there, a very intriguing factor starts working, which covers the consciousness, and makes you come back to the waking life with the same foolishness with which you entered the state of sleep.

This is Prajna, the consciousness which is in its own pristine nature, knowing everything and not being associated with anything external. This is the transcendent state in relation to waking and dreaming, the cause of all experiences in waking and dreaming, the Karana-Avastha, in relation to which waking and dreaming are effects, Karya-Avastha. In correspondence with this Prajna, or the causal condition of Anandamayatva of the Jiva, there is a Universal Causal Condition, known as Isvara. While the waking consciousness, individually, is called Visva, it is called Taijasa in dream, and Prajna in the deep sleep state. Correspondingly, from the cosmic level, we have Virat in waking, Hiranyagarbha in dreaming, and Isvara in deep sleep. While we, ordinarily, hold that the impressions of waking create dream and an adjournment of all the activities of these impressions is sleep, thus deducing dream from waking and sleep from both, in the cosmic level we cannot make such deductions, because a reverse process takes place there which seems to be a prior condition to the individual state. Isvara being the cause of Hiranyagarbha, and Hiranyagarbha being the cause of Virat. The relationship between the individual and the cosmic, between Visva and Virat, Taijasa and Hiranyagarbha, Prajna and Isvara is one of organic integrality, and a realisation of this organic connection of being will land the Jiva in Isvaratva and make it at once omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent.

Your post is very interesting and I will send you a fuller reply but it is one which I need to read several times I think about.

I have read both of your posts and the perspective is not one which I have come across before. I do find it interesting because I am sympathetic to Eastern schools of philosophy. I keep an open mind and juggle between Western and Eastern metaphysics. It is sometimes difficult to commit oneself to any one view on reality, including one perspective on dreaming. My basic approach comes from the thinking of Carl Jung and he incorporates some forms of Eastern metaphysics. Generally, my view is that dreams are often dismissed even though they play an important and integral aspect of human experience.