Conscious experiences indistinguishable from quantum randomness?
- coolguy123
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Conscious experiences indistinguishable from quantum randomness?
1) Quantum theories like the no-hiding theorem state that information cannot be created nor destroyed.
2) Consciousness is theorized to be created by information processing.
3) consciousness is a series of mental states
4) mental states is information
5) all information can be represented by arbitrary data
6) from 4) and 5) all mental states can be represented by arbitrary data
7) 1), 2), and 6) all consciousness experiences can be represented by arbitrary data
One analogy I thought of how to try to explain this is comparing our conscious experiences to a movie. Then each mental state in a moment of time is like a single frame of that movie. A single frame of a movie is a picture that can be represented by data. How that data is formatted is arbitrary.
I can think of 2 ways to explain "5)" better. Like Michelangelo's quote “In every block of marble I see a statue as plain as though it stood before me, shaped and perfect in attitude and action. I have only to hew away the rough walls that imprison the lovely apparition to reveal it to the other eyes as mine see it.” can translate to any information can exist in data if you manipulate it accordingly. Another way is any data can be encrypted or encoded by manipulating it randomly and using that same randomness to unencrypt it. The cipher text of data encrypted with randomness would be indistinguishable from random data. Whether or not someone has the decryption method from the point of view of the ego representing the mental state, it should feel just as real regardless of how that data is encoded.
I see consequences to this idea like all mental states that can exist do exist. I don't see how we would be able to distinguish our experience of reality that appears to have continuity with one that is just random data interpreted into arbitrary mental states. This seems similar to the multi-verse theory except it's more like natural simulated conscious experiences that make up reality. Any feeling of any possible world exists in the same sense as our feeling of existing exists from moment to moment.
- 3017Metaphysician
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Re: Conscious experiences indistinguishable from quantum randomness?
I like your notion of consciousness being that which processes information. That's probably the most important piece to your OP. I'm kind of getting lost on the other pieces though. For instance, something that has causative value or power is an entity that causes stuff to happen. Whether that thing-in-itself causes randomness, or determined action, we still cannot escape that 'movie' which happens to us, not necessarily by us.coolguy123 wrote: ↑October 31st, 2022, 10:10 pm I have a theory about conscious experiences I've thought of over the years. I'm trying to think of how it can't be true. The theory goes like this
1) Quantum theories like the no-hiding theorem state that information cannot be created nor destroyed.
2) Consciousness is theorized to be created by information processing.
3) consciousness is a series of mental states
4) mental states is information
5) all information can be represented by arbitrary data
6) from 4) and 5) all mental states can be represented by arbitrary data
7) 1), 2), and 6) all consciousness experiences can be represented by arbitrary data
One analogy I thought of how to try to explain this is comparing our conscious experiences to a movie. Then each mental state in a moment of time is like a single frame of that movie. A single frame of a movie is a picture that can be represented by data. How that data is formatted is arbitrary.
I can think of 2 ways to explain "5)" better. Like Michelangelo's quote “In every block of marble I see a statue as plain as though it stood before me, shaped and perfect in attitude and action. I have only to hew away the rough walls that imprison the lovely apparition to reveal it to the other eyes as mine see it.” can translate to any information can exist in data if you manipulate it accordingly. Another way is any data can be encrypted or encoded by manipulating it randomly and using that same randomness to unencrypt it. The cipher text of data encrypted with randomness would be indistinguishable from random data. Whether or not someone has the decryption method from the point of view of the ego representing the mental state, it should feel just as real regardless of how that data is encoded.
I see consequences to this idea like all mental states that can exist do exist. I don't see how we would be able to distinguish our experience of reality that appears to have continuity with one that is just random data interpreted into arbitrary mental states. This seems similar to the multi-verse theory except it's more like natural simulated conscious experiences that make up reality. Any feeling of any possible world exists in the same sense as our feeling of existing exists from moment to moment.
Meaning, we have at least two dynamics going on relative to conscious experiences and quantum randomness. As such, the corresponding stream of consciousness, and our Will that stops that stream or random flow of thoughts and feelings. The question could be, where are those instructions that cause the flow of thoughts and feelings (randomness) and to what extend do we have control over them. Perhaps the actual causative value of that flow is indeed arbitrary, as you say. Accordingly, it seems to represent "arbitrary data" or information that we nevertheless still pick and choose from. They are necessary for thought. Maybe in that sense, we stop the movie, select a picture from it, then proceed with some course of action.
In summary, I think you have information and ideas that randomly flow, as perceived by the senses, then you have a Will that overrides that independent flow or existence. Both the randomness of ideas, and the Will to choose from them, have causative value/power. The exciting part is that no one knows what flow of ideas will emerge next, within that subjective conscious experience!
― Albert Einstein
- coolguy123
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Re: Conscious experiences indistinguishable from quantum randomness?
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023
Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023