Dulce et Decorum est Pro patria mori

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LuckyR
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Re: Dulce et Decorum est Pro patria mori

Post by LuckyR » November 9th, 2018, 3:06 am

Steve3007 wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 2:56 am
Does this make me your muse?
In this particular case, maybe! :D

Are you actually a roofer?
My work is closer to plumbing and deliveries...
"As usual... it depends."

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ktz
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Re: Dulce et Decorum est Pro patria mori

Post by ktz » November 10th, 2018, 4:25 am

In the context of a philosophy forum, it might be apt for us also to discuss the incentives and implications at play when we axiomatically accept or deny the premise as well. I'm more or less on board with the idea of giving one's life to a cause greater than oneself. But modern conceptions of patriotism and nationalism make me feel a bit philosophically complicit with the war profiteers and sketchy contractors who show their snivelling faces and line their pockets when wars break out. Like you guys have described, inevitably it is those least deserving and with the least means, civilian casualties and noble young kids joining the military for the chance at a better life, who must suffer the most, whether by becoming a bit more Dulce et Decorum than they had originally planned, or by having to deal with the appalling lack of support for veterans and their mental health when they return home.

So I think there may have been a time in human history when I'd be on board, fighting for the cause of liberty and human rights. But these days, I think there are too many perverse incentives at play within the mess of political economy we've got going on. So I think I'll agree that in 2018 I can vote very un-dulce, un-decorum.

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Hereandnow
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Re: Dulce et Decorum est Pro patria mori

Post by Hereandnow » November 10th, 2018, 3:58 pm

Well done ktz! But even if the cause were justified, would it be for one's country? The notion is flawed at its core.

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ktz
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Re: Dulce et Decorum est Pro patria mori

Post by ktz » November 10th, 2018, 6:10 pm

I think it is not outside the realm of possibility that a country could stand for something. As I get older and learn more about the conniving nature of political maneuvering I wonder if this was ever really the case. But I had a country that truly served the just causes of human rights and freedom from tyranny, I would imagine a death in service of those ideals to still be dulce et decorum.

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Hereandnow
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Re: Dulce et Decorum est Pro patria mori

Post by Hereandnow » November 10th, 2018, 11:15 pm

Those ideals would not, I assume, the exclusionary nature of nationalism.

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