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Being vegan for ethical reasons.

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Kaz_1983
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Kaz_1983 » September 8th, 2019, 6:22 pm

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... html%3famp
"this could also be traumatising for children getting to know the animals and then knowing they are going to die."
And what's the problem with that? Nothing IMO, anyways what do people think about that?

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LuckyR
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by LuckyR » September 9th, 2019, 2:25 am

Kaz_1983 wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 6:08 pm
Belindi wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 11:42 am
Frugality is sexy but it takes time for people to adapt. Therefore we say "Just have one meat-free day per week". Or " Omit the most cruel foods" (Foie gras is the most cruel).
Obviously I'd prefer people go vegan/plant based rather than just do "meat free Mondays" - I can't help that but I do realise that it isn't practical, nor possible in most cases.

Switching to plant based milk, trying some vegan products, buy beans rather than pork next time etc etc, that's both practical and possible. People should do that.
Letting children know where their food comes from is not on all the curriculums yet but it will be.
I let my son eat meat if he wants, he's got $5 a week to spend on meat. BUT, I make sure that he knows what he's eating, you that "...a pig was killed for that peice of pork"

I'm gonna make sure he watches some slaughter house footage in a few years.
You're underestimating the power of small shifts when multiplied by hundreds of millions of consumers. If vegetarians go vegan, no redmeat people go non dairy, regular folks lower their beef consumption and use non dairy creamer, the multiplicative effect can be substantial.
"As usual... it depends."

Belindi
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Belindi » September 9th, 2019, 6:31 am

Lucky, that's reasonable optimism :)

Alias
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Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Alias » September 9th, 2019, 11:54 pm

LuckyR wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 2:36 am
I wasn't discussing "bad" (vs good), I was discussing ethical and moral. Several bad things are ethical.
But not rape - at least, not illegal rape. I wonder what your criteria are for "ethical".

Alias
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Alias » September 9th, 2019, 11:57 pm

Sculptor1 wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 5:07 pm
The people of PNQ have been living with no change to the environment for 30,000 years. And until the white man arrived on the scene Australian aborigines, had minimal impact for 40,000 years.
So was everyone else, except for the chronic overhunting, until civilization put an end to it.
Now, nobody is.

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LuckyR
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by LuckyR » September 10th, 2019, 2:55 am

Belindi wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 6:31 am
Lucky, that's reasonable optimism :)
As it turns out, we don't need to get to zero demand to impact the industry. Already the 25% decrease in milk consumption in the US has forced marginal players out of the industry. Another 10% would likely be the tipping point towards irreversible decline.
"As usual... it depends."

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LuckyR
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by LuckyR » September 10th, 2019, 2:59 am

Alias wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 11:54 pm
LuckyR wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 2:36 am
I wasn't discussing "bad" (vs good), I was discussing ethical and moral. Several bad things are ethical.
But not rape - at least, not illegal rape. I wonder what your criteria are for "ethical".
Very true. Rape (as mentioned before) is universally unethical, meaning it violates the ethical standard of all modern societies.

OTOH, slavery in the antebellum South, was wrong, yet didn't violate the ethical standard of that society.
"As usual... it depends."

Kaz_1983
Posts: 165
Joined: May 26th, 2019, 6:52 am

Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Kaz_1983 » September 10th, 2019, 4:48 am

LuckyR wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 2:55 am
Belindi wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 6:31 am
Lucky, that's reasonable optimism :)
As it turns out, we don't need to get to zero demand to impact the industry. Already the 25% decrease in milk consumption in the US has forced marginal players out of the industry. Another 10% would likely be the tipping point towards irreversible decline.
A tipping point is just when small change becomes significant enough to cause a larger, more important change. Give it a few generations - the babies born today, will see the transformation from meat and dairy being common-place, to when the large majority is vegan.

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Sculptor1
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Sculptor1 » September 10th, 2019, 10:17 am

Alias wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 11:57 pm
Sculptor1 wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 5:07 pm
The people of PNQ have been living with no change to the environment for 30,000 years. And until the white man arrived on the scene Australian aborigines, had minimal impact for 40,000 years.
So was everyone else, except for the chronic overhunting, until civilization put an end to it.
Now, nobody is.
An "IS" is not an "Ought".

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LuckyR
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by LuckyR » September 10th, 2019, 11:39 am

Kaz_1983 wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 4:48 am
LuckyR wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 2:55 am


As it turns out, we don't need to get to zero demand to impact the industry. Already the 25% decrease in milk consumption in the US has forced marginal players out of the industry. Another 10% would likely be the tipping point towards irreversible decline.
A tipping point is just when small change becomes significant enough to cause a larger, more important change. Give it a few generations - the babies born today, will see the transformation from meat and dairy being common-place, to when the large majority is vegan.
Thanks for the definition. I agree that continuing the slow steady decline is going to make the inevitable happen... eventually. I was describing the point where (by my estimation) a tiny further change likely will bring about an economic shift of huge proportions, IOW a classic tipping point.
"As usual... it depends."

Belindi
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Belindi » September 11th, 2019, 6:12 am

Kaz wrote:
A tipping point is just when small change becomes significant enough to cause a larger, more important change. Give it a few generations - the babies born today, will see the transformation from meat and dairy being common-place, to when the large majority is vegan.
I don't offer the following as evidence from authority although it's accepted as evidence by believers. It's rather well expressed though:

And again he said, “To what shall I compare the kingdom of God? It is like leaven that a woman took and hid in three measures of flour, until it was all leavened.”

— Luke 13:20–21,


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