Being vegan for ethical reasons.

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Kaz_1983
Posts: 349
Joined: May 26th, 2019, 6:52 am

Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Kaz_1983 » March 24th, 2020, 6:56 pm

[*]
Sculptor1 wrote:
March 24th, 2020, 1:14 pm
Kaz_1983 wrote:
March 23rd, 2020, 1:21 pm

Our taste preference is based on desire.

Murder, rape and theft are too.
Are you trying to make some sort of point?
Yes, desiring something does not tell you if it's right or wrong - some people desire committing murder and theft - you desire the taste pleasure eating meat provides.

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Greta
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Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Greta » March 24th, 2020, 7:02 pm

Sculptor, it's obvious what Kaz meant.

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Sculptor1
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Sculptor1 » March 25th, 2020, 6:52 am

Kaz_1983 wrote:
March 24th, 2020, 6:56 pm
[*]
Sculptor1 wrote:
March 24th, 2020, 1:14 pm


Are you trying to make some sort of point?
Yes, desiring something does not tell you if it's right or wrong - some people desire committing murder and theft - you desire the taste pleasure eating meat provides.
I do not buy into moral objectivity.
Neither should you, as you would be out voted, by lovers of bacon.

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Sculptor1
Posts: 1327
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Sculptor1 » March 25th, 2020, 6:55 am

Greta wrote:
March 24th, 2020, 7:02 pm
Sculptor, it's obvious what Kaz meant.

You get that from THIS?

"Our taste preference is based on desire.
Murder, rape and theft are too."

Did not know you were a mind reader. Sounds like he was agreeing with me.

Kaz_1983
Posts: 349
Joined: May 26th, 2019, 6:52 am

Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Kaz_1983 » March 25th, 2020, 10:27 am

Sculptor1 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 6:55 am
Sounds like he was agreeing with me.
The is/ought gap applies here... yes it IS a fact that you desire to eat meat - but that doesn't tell you whether you OUGHT do it.

So no I wasn't agreeing with you, just pointing that you can "desire" anything.

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Sculptor1
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Sculptor1 » March 25th, 2020, 1:47 pm

Kaz_1983 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 10:27 am
Sculptor1 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 6:55 am
Sounds like he was agreeing with me.
The is/ought gap applies here... yes it IS a fact that you desire to eat meat - but that doesn't tell you whether you OUGHT do it.

So no I wasn't agreeing with you, just pointing that you can "desire" anything.
You don't like to eat meat; does not mean you should not.

Kaz_1983
Posts: 349
Joined: May 26th, 2019, 6:52 am

Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Kaz_1983 » March 25th, 2020, 5:50 pm

Sculptor1 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 1:47 pm
Kaz_1983 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 10:27 am

The is/ought gap applies here... yes it IS a fact that you desire to eat meat - but that doesn't tell you whether you OUGHT do it.

So no I wasn't agreeing with you, just pointing that you can "desire" anything.
You don't like to eat meat; does not mean you should not.
All you're doing is just following a "desire"

You don't care if it's right or wrong.

Kaz_1983
Posts: 349
Joined: May 26th, 2019, 6:52 am

Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Kaz_1983 » March 25th, 2020, 6:22 pm

Sculptor1 wrote:
March 19th, 2020, 11:58 am
I never used any "moral agency" justification.
1. you said the difference is that animals lack the belief that humans hold VALUE

2 "moral agency" is the ability to make moral judgments based on what you VALUE

1. talks about the inability to value.
2. talks about the ability to value.

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Sculptor1
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Sculptor1 » March 26th, 2020, 5:28 am

Kaz_1983 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 5:50 pm
Sculptor1 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 1:47 pm


You don't like to eat meat; does not mean you should not.
All you're doing is just following a "desire"

You don't care if it's right or wrong.
I always care what is right and wrong and always act accordingly.

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Sculptor1
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Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Sculptor1 » March 26th, 2020, 5:34 am

Kaz_1983 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 6:22 pm
Sculptor1 wrote:
March 19th, 2020, 11:58 am
I never used any "moral agency" justification.
1. you said the difference is that animals lack the belief that humans hold VALUE

2 "moral agency" is the ability to make moral judgments based on what you VALUE

1. talks about the inability to value.
2. talks about the ability to value.
Like I have said, again and again. Please refer back to the PMs we already shared.

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Sculptor1
Posts: 1327
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Sculptor1 » March 26th, 2020, 5:34 am

Kaz_1983 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 6:22 pm
Sculptor1 wrote:
March 19th, 2020, 11:58 am
I never used any "moral agency" justification.
1. you said the difference is that animals lack the belief that humans hold VALUE

2 "moral agency" is the ability to make moral judgments based on what you VALUE

1. talks about the inability to value.
2. talks about the ability to value.
Like I have said, again and again. Please refer back to the PMs we already shared.

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Sculptor1
Posts: 1327
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Sculptor1 » March 26th, 2020, 5:45 am

Kaz_1983 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 6:22 pm
Sculptor1 wrote:
March 19th, 2020, 11:58 am
I never used any "moral agency" justification.
1. you said the difference is that animals lack the belief that humans hold VALUE

2 "moral agency" is the ability to make moral judgments based on what you VALUE

1. talks about the inability to value.
2. talks about the ability to value.
My first response was THIS; "Premise one is false. Next..."

Which you ignored.
Thereafter I just played along.
You really must learn to READ properly.

Kaz_1983
Posts: 349
Joined: May 26th, 2019, 6:52 am

Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Kaz_1983 » March 26th, 2020, 9:55 am

Sculptor1 wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:45 am
Kaz_1983 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 6:22 pm

1. you said the difference is that animals lack the belief that humans hold VALUE

2 "moral agency" is the ability to make moral judgments based on what you VALUE

1. talks about the inability to value.
2. talks about the ability to value.
My first response was THIS; "Premise one is false. Next..."

Which you ignored.
Thereafter I just played along.
You really must learn to READ properly.
You have pointed to the fact that humans (as a species) possess moral reasoning and the belief that's humans hold value.

But if a human doesn't possess those abilities - everytime you invoke humanity...

Kaz_1983
Posts: 349
Joined: May 26th, 2019, 6:52 am

Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Kaz_1983 » March 26th, 2020, 10:17 am

Sculptor1 wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:28 am
Kaz_1983 wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 5:50 pm

All you're doing is just following a "desire"

You don't care if it's right or wrong.
I always care what is right and wrong and always act accordingly.
See if you believe everything just comes down to acting on your "desires" - nothing can be moral cos nothing can be immoral.

Do you believe in free-will?

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Sculptor1
Posts: 1327
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.

Post by Sculptor1 » March 26th, 2020, 10:37 am

Kaz_1983 wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 10:17 am
Sculptor1 wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:28 am


I always care what is right and wrong and always act accordingly.
See if you believe everything just comes down to acting on your "desires" - nothing can be moral cos nothing can be immoral.

Do you believe in free-will?
I think you might want to avoid hyperbole if you want to have any sort of a discussion with me. I doubt you would be capable though. Your argumentation approach seems to be to go from one straw man to another.
No I do not accept the normally constituted notion of free will. What do YOU mean by it and why do you ask?

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