Save the Whale!

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Bill Wiltrack
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Save the Whale!

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Save the Whale!




Humpback whales are not the most critically endangered species of whale but they still need protection. Although large-scale commercial hunting of whales has reduced greatly since the end of the 20th century, some whaling, including of humpbacks, still occurs.


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Humpbacks and other whales also face other problems. Their ocean habitat is vulnerable and if pollution or other problems kill off a food supply, the whales go too. Individuals can do plenty to help save them. Helping to protect the whale habitat might not be as immediately exciting as taking direct action to stop whaling but it is just as important.







People are animals first. Our empathy makes us human.








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Misty
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Re: Save the Whale!

Post by Misty »

Offensive picture in context to your point - but funny!
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
Wowbagger
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Re: Save the Whale!

Post by Wowbagger »

I don't know if this is serious or not, but I'll make a remark anyway. I think Greenpeace is a speciesist organization, they care more about species preservation (especially about those species that are cool or cute, like, admittedly, whales) than the well-being of individual animals. When they campaign against fishing, they often write that fishing is "plundering" they oceans. But fishes aren't resources! They're sentient beings, and their well-being should come first. A species doesn't have experiences or interests, only individual members have. It's speciesist to devote more attention to a being just because it happens to belong to a species that is about to go extinct.
Bill Wiltrack
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Re: Save the Whale!

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Your remark, for me, is spot-on.

Very perceptive response and well articulated.


You understand the essence of my original post better than I do.


Thank you for responding.







...on a side note, your response tethered in me a memory of one of the most important videos that I have ever watched; Jeremy Rifkin:The Empathic Civilization. I have watched this video at least twenty times and I still learn something from it each time I watch.


Your response was very empathetic in a mature way. Thank you again.







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Leninist
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Re: Save the Whale!

Post by Leninist »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:
People are animals first. Our empathy makes us human.
This quote is the only thing you've said with your own words, the other was from ehow.

You have not made any argument to why wales should be saved. Yes, I've seen the video and it's about empathy,we are an empathetic species. Marx, Engels, Althusser and many other philosophers have said that human nature is tied to the way we grow up, it is not something static - This is not new news.

Can you explain why empathy should be centered around whales?
Bill Wiltrack
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Re: Save the Whale!

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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None of the words I use are my words.


I'm not here...I really don't think I am here to deliver new news.


Kind of creepy...kind of mildly arousing to think that you took the time to copy the original post I made and checked it for previous usage. I still don't know what to feel towards that as I am typing this. Funny.

...um, your avatar, suddenly looks like the head shot of a stalker to me.



I think you caught some of the gist of the meaning that I intended for the post.




Empathy does not need to be centered around whales but in this case I used the subject of whales as a metaphor of sorts to a limited degree.



Just for fun, revisit my entire post and see if you can come up with another meaning or interpretation of this thread.



Thank you for responding.








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Leninist
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Re: Save the Whale!

Post by Leninist »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.None of the words I use are my words.
This is equivalent to me saying, none of the thoughts I think are my thoughts. It makes no sense. Perhaps you can explain philosophically why none of your words are not your words?
Bill Wiltrack wrote:I'm not here...I really don't think I am here to deliver new news.
Well if you aren't there then who is doing the thinking?
Bill Wiltrack wrote:Kind of creepy...kind of mildly arousing to think that you took the time to copy the original post I made and checked it for previous usage. I still don't know what to feel towards that as I am typing this. Funny.
It only took about 5 seconds, not as long as it takes for you to link and copy/paste all of other peoples work without doing the honour of referencing them
Bill Wiltrack wrote:...um, your avatar, suddenly looks like the head shot of a stalker to me.
It's Lenin. I thought my username gave it away. :p
Bill Wiltrack wrote:I think you caught some of the gist of the meaning that I intended for the post.
Yes, you want to save the whales, yet, you fail to give a philosophical argument why. I will show you the difference between a philosophical argument and an opinion.

An opinion: Stop killing whales! They are going instinctive! It is bad for humans! etc. (No reason behind it and/or anecdotal evidence without any logically valid inference)

Philosophical argument: Don't kill whales because it is immoral and unethical - Now I need to explain why it is immortal and unethical.

Don't kill whales because it destroys the ecosystem and (though scientific figures) you explain how it affects humans.

Don't kill whales because we have empathy - then explain why we should empathize with whales.
Bill Wiltrack wrote:Empathy does not need to be centered around whales but in this case I used the subject of whales as a metaphor of sorts to a limited degree.
This makes no sense, can you explain? Why is killing whales bad?
Bill Wiltrack wrote:Just for fun, revisit my entire post and see if you can come up with another meaning or interpretation of this thread.
I have done that just for fun and it still lacks any philosophical input.
Bill Wiltrack wrote:Thank you for responding.
Thank you for responding.
Bill Wiltrack
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Re: Save the Whale!

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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I haven't read this Lenin that you speak of...


Looked him up:

Image




...is that the gist of his philosophy?





There is a philosophical intent of the original post I made.

You're not quite there but that's OK.

I think if you were meant to understand the post in a different way, you would have.







Yeah, and your worst fears about me are true; none of the thoughts I think are my thoughts.



I didn't think of these words, I did not develop the English language, and in addition, I might as well get this off my chest now, I do not draw the images I use, I do not take the photographs I submit to the forum, the videos are created by someone else. THERE! You have it! I am a complete phoney!




...you, however are an original.





Thank you for sharing yourself with me.







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Leninist
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Re: Save the Whale!

Post by Leninist »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:....is that the gist of his philosophy?
No it's not.
Bill Wiltrack wrote:There is a philosophical intent of the original post I made.

You're not quite there but that's OK.

I think if you were meant to understand the post in a different way, you would have.
Philosophy can end up as an interpretive model, however, those philosophies are extremely complex, e.g Hegel. Yours however is extremely simple(practically non-existent), there is no need for an interpretation.
Bill Wiltrack wrote:Yeah, and your worst fears about me are true; none of the thoughts I think are my thoughts.
Why is this a fear for me? See, this is what I'm talking about, you make nonsensical speculations without any reasonable argument backing it up. In this case, no reason at all.
Bill Wiltrack wrote:I didn't think of these words, I did not develop the English language, and in addition, I might as well get this off my chest now, I do not draw the images I use, I do not take the photographs I submit to the forum, the videos are created by someone else. THERE! You have it! I am a complete phoney!
Yes, but, it is your argument as to why we should save the whales. I suspect a philosophy forum consists more than just copy/pasting images and texts; there is also a reason for doing this.
Bill Wiltrack wrote:...you, however are an original.
I don't know whether I am original or not.
Bill Wiltrack wrote:Thank you for sharing yourself with me.
No, Thank you for sharing yourself with me. :P
Bill Wiltrack
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Location: Cleveland, Ohio USA

Re: Save the Whale!

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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So what you are saying is,


No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. No it's not.


According to this Lenin guy, this is now No it's not is actually the truth which is now Yes it is -to my original question of his philosophy. Strange guy. Why doesn't he just be truthful and value truthfulness?








also, your avatar of Mr. Lenin is creeping me out. He doesn't look very happy. Did his philosophy make him happy or sad?




When I read your posts now I do it in the voice of that narrator in the cartoon song Your a bad one Mr Grinch!


.....................Image







Could you find a picture of your Mr. Lenin smiling and use that as your avatar instead of that creepy, stalker, lurker looking thingy you got there?




Cheers!





oh, and don't worry about understanding that philosophy thingy. Rather, think of ways you could possibly undermine and berate me. That would be more productive & satisfying for you.








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Leninist
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Re: Save the Whale!

Post by Leninist »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.According to this Lenin guy, this is now No it's not is actually the truth which is now Yes it is -to my original question of his philosophy.
I have no idea what you are trying to say here. I'm trying to understand your logic, your reasoning. I think you're trying to conflate disagreeing with lying; I don't see the connection.
Bill Wiltrack wrote:Why doesn't he just be truthful and value truthfulness?
That quote you pasted(I have no idea if it is from him - sometimes internet quotes can be made up or confused with other people) is not about the value of truth.
Bill Wiltrack wrote:also, your avatar of Mr. Lenin is creeping me out. He doesn't look very happy. Did his philosophy make him happy or sad?
I have no idea. I have read his philosophy not so much biography; I plan to do that sometime however. I judge the philosophical content, not the character. I'm guessing it made him happy, eh?
Bill Wiltrack wrote:Could you find a picture of your Mr. Lenin smiling and use that as your avatar instead of that creepy, stalker, lurker looking thingy you got there?
Sure, I don't mind lol.
Bill Wiltrack wrote:oh, and don't worry about understanding that philosophy thingy. Rather, think of ways you could possibly undermine and berate me. That would be more productive & satisfying for you.
Isn't this site a philosophy forum thingy?

I have said nothing to berate you personally, only to critically analyse your philosophy - which is done in philosophy, constantly.

You are the one that made it personal - "Kind of creepy...kind of mildly arousing to think that you took the time to copy the original post I made and checked it for previous usage." - "You're not quite there but that's OK." - "Yeah, and your worst fears about me are true". And then you basically call me the Grinch.

All I want to know is the reason behind your logic.
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Leninist
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Re: Save the Whale!

Post by Leninist »

Is this the reason behind your logic? Confusion?
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Maldon007
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Re: Save the Whale!

Post by Maldon007 »

You'r new lenin pic is equally creepy, he may have just been creepy.


Use this one if you want, much better-

Image
Bill Wiltrack
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Location: Cleveland, Ohio USA

Re: Save the Whale!

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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My GOD!


I'm REALLY getting creeped-out by this Lenin guy.





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Re: Save the Whale!

Post by psyreporter »

Interesting topic and still relevant 10 years later, considering that fortune 500 companies are dumping toxic waste in the ocean.

The head of the Dutch oil company Trafigura BV ordered to dump a tanker full of highly toxic poison in the ocean. The poison was such severely toxic that the city of Amsterdam denied to process it. The topman (CEO) of the company then said in internal communication to the skipper to dump the poison in the ocean with the notion “Beyond Dover, and certainly not in the Baltic Sea.“.

Image

https://psyreporter.com/poison-dump-in-ocean/

An attempt to learn whale language has been initiated in April 2021 and it was noted that it requires philosophy, which may explain why a serious effort to understand whales and dolphins was never made until now, since philosophy has been actively suppressed by science in the past +100 years.

Philosophy of whales and dolphins
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17606

The field animal ethics of philosophy and its effects on how humans in general (culturally) perceive and interact with animals shows the importance of philosophy to improve the well-being of animals in human-animal relations in general (even on global scale).

Animal minds have long been considered a "black box" by science. It wasn't given attention and thus people in general didn't know anything about it and cannot understand a problem with treating animals in a specific way (i.e. without respect).

(2019) Animal Ethics: an important emerging topic for society
Another reason for scientists to engage with the philosophy of animal ethics is that it might help them confront topics that have been traditionally off-limits: in particular, the notion of animal minds. While minds are difficult enough to talk about in humans, this difficulty is exacerbated when it comes to non-human animals.

... animal minds and consciousness have been consigned to a “black box”, an entity too complex or confusing to delve into, but whose inputs and outputs become the object of study.

https://cosmosmagazine.com/society/anim ... and-ethics

Animal ethics evolves on the basis of advancements in intelligence and moral consideration (reason). It could be an argument that humans should choose wisely when they have the capacity to do so. A greater capacity in intelligence and moral consideration for animals comes with new responsibilities, and as such, the human being naturally evolves culturally into a state of less violence towards, and improved care for the well-being animals.

Suggestion: whale and dolphin philosophy!

Inspiration:

Philosopher John Lilly founded the Communication Research Institute in the late 1950's and published research suggesting that his attempts to talk to dolphins were working.

Image

"The feeling of weirdness came on us as the sounds of this small whale seemed more and more to be forming words in our own human language. We felt we were in the presence of Something, or Someone who was on the other side of the transparent barrier" ~ philosopher John C. Lilly

https://www.johnclilly.com/

The following website, founded in 2016, provides an overview of the latest whale and dolphin science which again indicates that major initiatives to understand them are fairly new.

Image

https://whalescientists.com/

(2021) What do we know about intelligence in whales and dolphins?
"Could whales be as smart, if not smarter, than humans?"
https://whalescientists.com/intelligenc ... -dolphins/

Considering the potential that whales and dolphins have a physiological capacity that could allow them to be more intelligent than humans, it may be important that the human is able to recognize and understand their intelligence if they ever hope to discover, appropriately recognize and understand extraterrestrial life.

1) if whales have a language that is more complex than that of humans, how could humans possibly learn to understand it?
2) are there philosophers that dedicate to whales and dolphins today?
3) what purpose could advanced brain technology serve for a life as a whale or dolphin?
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