Ethical Vaccine Distribution

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WanderingGaze22
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Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by WanderingGaze22 »

I am sure this dilemma is not unfamiliar with most of the world, but with the COVID, I feel this experiment could help identify and understand numerous perspectives. A terrible pandemic is raging across the globe. A vaccine has finally been developed. Producing this vaccine is lengthy will take time before there are enough vaccines for everyone. However, each week new vaccines become available for distribution. In this scenario, you are in charge of distributing vaccines for your country. What is the most ethical approach to vaccine distribution in your country where there are not initially enough vaccines for everyone? How do you prioritize who will get the vaccine first? What factors do you consider and which do you not? How will you work to ensure vaccine distribution is fair, equitable, and reaches the maximum amount of people?

Every tactic is appreciated and the more explanations, the better.
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chewybrian
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by chewybrian »

I would downplay the problem, prioritize the economy over people, fight any attempts to solve the problem, and then try to claim credit when others took action. When I was defeated in the next election, I would cry foul and claim shenanigans, failing to realize that I would likely have won if I acted responsibly in the first place.

Seriously, I would defer to the experts and use the strategy that would likely save the most lives. It might mean distributing the vaccines to the hardest hit areas first. But, if Fauci and the rest said that we could save more people by inoculating in areas where the virus hadn't hit first, then I would listen to them, even though the public might not see the wisdom of that strategy. I would give it to the youngest or the oldest first--whichever should save the most people in the end. I would value all lives equally in these considerations, not giving preference by age or wealth or anything else. You would get the vaccine if your getting it first was likely to contribute to the lowest possible death toll in the end.
"If determinism holds, then past events have conspired to cause me to hold this view--it is out of my control. Either I am right about free will, or it is not my fault that I am wrong."
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by Pattern-chaser »

First, vaccinate those most in danger of dying from COVID19. Second, vaccinate those most likely to carry and spread the disease, especially those working with the vulnerable in some way (e.g. care home staff). In the face of vaccine shortages, what else could one do?
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
AverageBozo
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by AverageBozo »

First, vaccinate the first responders.
(Critically needed to aid others.)

Second, caregivers, nurses and medical personnel.
(Also needed for the sake of others.)

Next, those with medical conditions.
(Those who are most vulnerable.)

Then those who are over 80 years old.
(Those who are also at high risk.)

Then over 65.
(Relatively at high risk.)

Over 45.
(Moderate risk.)

21 & under as approved for the vaccine.
(Moderate risk.)

All others.
(22 - 44 least risk.)
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LuckyR
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by LuckyR »

Basically do it the way it was actually done.
"As usual... it depends."
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Empiricist-Bruno
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

Ethical vaccine distribution starts with giving it to those who understand the risks/ benefits involved. Given that the vaccine was first distributed among captive, unwilling animals it is pretty clear that too few of us care about ethical vaccine distribution otherwise we would be jailing all the scientific community involved in the development of the vaccine.
Unethical scientists don't develop vaccines for people but simply because they rush to create something that naive people will want to buy.
In today's world, economic rules dictate how the vaccine will be distributed. If you care about ethics, go vegan or you need to be considered hypocritical, which is not really ethical. Going vegan means to reject products tested on animals, including the life saving products recently created by capitalists who caused the deadly problem in the first place and who try to present their evil products as the solution.
Watch out for the hidden paradoxes around you!
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Sculptor1
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by Sculptor1 »

Empiricist-Bruno wrote: October 25th, 2021, 6:19 am Ethical vaccine distribution starts with giving it to those who understand the risks/ benefits involved. Given that the vaccine was first distributed among captive, unwilling animals it is pretty clear that too few of us care about ethical vaccine distribution otherwise we would be jailing all the scientific community involved in the development of the vaccine.
Unethical scientists don't develop vaccines for people but simply because they rush to create something that naive people will want to buy.
In today's world, economic rules dictate how the vaccine will be distributed. If you care about ethics, go vegan or you need to be considered hypocritical, which is not really ethical. Going vegan means to reject products tested on animals, including the life saving products recently created by capitalists who caused the deadly problem in the first place and who try to present their evil products as the solution.
Ethics is principally for humans, not animals.
I doubt that you would want to offer yourself in place of an animal for testing, though there is not doubt you have gained much by their sacrifice.
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Empiricist-Bruno
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

Sculptor1 wrote: October 25th, 2021, 6:27 am
Empiricist-Bruno wrote: October 25th, 2021, 6:19 am Ethical vaccine distribution starts with giving it to those who understand the risks/ benefits involved. Given that the vaccine was first distributed among captive, unwilling animals it is pretty clear that too few of us care about ethical vaccine distribution otherwise we would be jailing all the scientific community involved in the development of the vaccine.
Unethical scientists don't develop vaccines for people but simply because they rush to create something that naive people will want to buy.
In today's world, economic rules dictate how the vaccine will be distributed. If you care about ethics, go vegan or you need to be considered hypocritical, which is not really ethical. Going vegan means to reject products tested on animals, including the life saving products recently created by capitalists who caused the deadly problem in the first place and who try to present their evil products as the solution.
Ethics is principally for humans, not animals.
I doubt that you would want to offer yourself in place of an animal for testing, though there is not doubt you have gained much by their sacrifice.
Where did you get that from? Many people consider themselves animals, no?

I certainly would offer myself for testing in certain circumstances such as if a rabid bat bit me and the first anti rabies vaccine was being offered as an experimental treatment. But you are correct to say that I would not volunteer to be given deliberately a deadly virus to see if my experimental vaccine was effective against it followed shortly after with me being killed so I could be dissected to see if the vaccine did indeed help or not fight the disease in my lungs.

I have gained much by their sacrifice?? That's pretty far fetched. I am embarrassed by appearing to be a part of species who attack mother nature thinking that they may be able to grow in wiseness that way. I currently feel totally devalued by my apparent association with the dominant others of my species. And then being informed that I am in fact a beneficiary of the sacrifices of these animals is implying/suggesting that I caused this. You right wing innocent psycho guys are killing me, stop it!
Watch out for the hidden paradoxes around you!
WanderingGaze22
Posts: 223
Joined: June 9th, 2021, 12:39 am

Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by WanderingGaze22 »

AverageBozo wrote: October 24th, 2021, 11:58 am First, vaccinate the first responders.
(Critically needed to aid others.)

Second, caregivers, nurses and medical personnel.
(Also needed for the sake of others.)

Next, those with medical conditions.
(Those who are most vulnerable.)

Then those who are over 80 years old.
(Those who are also at high risk.)

Then over 65.
(Relatively at high risk.)

Over 45.
(Moderate risk.)

21 & under as approved for the vaccine.
(Moderate risk.)

All others.
(22 - 44 least risk.)
Not bad, not bad at all.
WanderingGaze22
Posts: 223
Joined: June 9th, 2021, 12:39 am

Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by WanderingGaze22 »

Pattern-chaser wrote: October 24th, 2021, 6:26 am Straightforward and basic, I like this approach.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by Pattern-chaser »

AverageBozo wrote: October 24th, 2021, 11:58 am First, vaccinate the first responders.
(Critically needed to aid others.)

Second, caregivers, nurses and medical personnel.
(Also needed for the sake of others.)

Next, those with medical conditions.
(Those who are most vulnerable.)

Then those who are over 80 years old.
(Those who are also at high risk.)

Then over 65.
(Relatively at high risk.)

Over 45.
(Moderate risk.)

21 & under as approved for the vaccine.
(Moderate risk.)

All others.
(22 - 44 least risk.)
While it's good to protect the carers, it's the vulnerable who are at the greatest risk. It does no good to keep the carers safe if their patients catch covid; perhaps the vulnerable should be protected first?
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
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Sculptor1
Posts: 7089
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by Sculptor1 »

Empiricist-Bruno wrote: October 25th, 2021, 5:38 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: October 25th, 2021, 6:27 am
Empiricist-Bruno wrote: October 25th, 2021, 6:19 am Ethical vaccine distribution starts with giving it to those who understand the risks/ benefits involved. Given that the vaccine was first distributed among captive, unwilling animals it is pretty clear that too few of us care about ethical vaccine distribution otherwise we would be jailing all the scientific community involved in the development of the vaccine.
Unethical scientists don't develop vaccines for people but simply because they rush to create something that naive people will want to buy.
In today's world, economic rules dictate how the vaccine will be distributed. If you care about ethics, go vegan or you need to be considered hypocritical, which is not really ethical. Going vegan means to reject products tested on animals, including the life saving products recently created by capitalists who caused the deadly problem in the first place and who try to present their evil products as the solution.
Ethics is principally for humans, not animals.
I doubt that you would want to offer yourself in place of an animal for testing, though there is not doubt you have gained much by their sacrifice.
Where did you get that from? Many people consider themselves animals, no?
Obfuscation.
Put it this way . Ethics is principally for humans, not NON-humans.

I certainly would offer myself for testing in certain circumstances such as if a rabid bat bit me and the first anti rabies vaccine was being offered as an experimental treatment. But you are correct to say that I would not volunteer to be given deliberately a deadly virus to see if my experimental vaccine was effective against it followed shortly after with me being killed so I could be dissected to see if the vaccine did indeed help or not fight the disease in my lungs.
And yet many humans dis EXACTLY that.
It's a pity that you rate pigs over your own species.

I have gained much by their sacrifice?? That's pretty far fetched.
It's only far fetched to a person who does not care about other people.
I am embarrassed by appearing to be a part of species who attack mother nature
We area a part of "mother nature", no?
thinking that they may be able to grow in wiseness that way. I currently feel totally devalued by my apparent association with the dominant others of my species. And then being informed that I am in fact a beneficiary of the sacrifices of these animals is implying/suggesting that I caused this. You right wing innocent psycho guys are killing me, stop it!
Insults are prohibited on this Forum.
I'm left wing - possibly the most left wing on the Forum.
Last edited by Sculptor1 on October 26th, 2021, 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
AverageBozo
Posts: 502
Joined: May 11th, 2021, 11:20 am

Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by AverageBozo »

Pattern-chaser wrote: October 26th, 2021, 7:12 am
AverageBozo wrote: October 24th, 2021, 11:58 am First, vaccinate the first responders.
(Critically needed to aid others.)

Second, caregivers, nurses and medical personnel.
(Also needed for the sake of others.)

Next, those with medical conditions.
(Those who are most vulnerable.)

Then those who are over 80 years old.
(Those who are also at high risk.)

Then over 65.
(Relatively at high risk.)

Over 45.
(Moderate risk.)

21 & under as approved for the vaccine.
(Moderate risk.)

All others.
(22 - 44 least risk.)
While it's good to protect the carers, it's the vulnerable who are at the greatest risk. It does no good to keep the carers safe if their patients catch covid; perhaps the vulnerable should be protected first?
Could go either way—most vulnerable first or caregivers first.
mahfouz
Posts: 5
Joined: February 7th, 2018, 1:58 pm

Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by mahfouz »

AverageBozo wrote: October 26th, 2021, 9:48 am
Pattern-chaser wrote: October 26th, 2021, 7:12 am
AverageBozo wrote: October 24th, 2021, 11:58 am First, vaccinate the first responders.
(Critically needed to aid others.)

Second, caregivers, nurses and medical personnel.
(Also needed for the sake of others.)

Next, those with medical conditions.
(Those who are most vulnerable.)

Then those who are over 80 years old.
(Those who are also at high risk.)

Then over 65.
(Relatively at high risk.)

Over 45.
(Moderate risk.)

21 & under as approved for the vaccine.
(Moderate risk.)

All others.
(22 - 44 least risk.)
While it's good to protect the carers, it's the vulnerable who are at the greatest risk. It does no good to keep the carers safe if their patients catch covid; perhaps the vulnerable should be protected first?
Could go either way—most vulnerable first or caregivers first.
I remember an episode of Baywatch where a brash, young lifeguard trainee was asked if in a situation where they and a person they were rescuing were about to be driven into some rocks by a wave who would they protect? They quickly answered that they would put themselves in between the rescuee and the rocks to take the impact.

The trainer asked him who would rescue both of them if the trainee became too hurt to continue the rescue.
AverageBozo
Posts: 502
Joined: May 11th, 2021, 11:20 am

Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by AverageBozo »

mahfouz wrote: October 26th, 2021, 11:49 am
AverageBozo wrote: October 26th, 2021, 9:48 am
Pattern-chaser wrote: October 26th, 2021, 7:12 am
AverageBozo wrote: October 24th, 2021, 11:58 am First, vaccinate the first responders.
(Critically needed to aid others.)

Second, caregivers, nurses and medical personnel.
(Also needed for the sake of others.)

Next, those with medical conditions.
(Those who are most vulnerable.)

Then those who are over 80 years old.
(Those who are also at high risk.)

Then over 65.
(Relatively at high risk.)

Over 45.
(Moderate risk.)

21 & under as approved for the vaccine.
(Moderate risk.)

All others.
(22 - 44 least risk.)
While it's good to protect the carers, it's the vulnerable who are at the greatest risk. It does no good to keep the carers safe if their patients catch covid; perhaps the vulnerable should be protected first?
Could go either way—most vulnerable first or caregivers first.
I remember an episode of Baywatch where a brash, young lifeguard trainee was asked if in a situation where they and a person they were rescuing were about to be driven into some rocks by a wave who would they protect? They quickly answered that they would put themselves in between the rescuee and the rocks to take the impact.

The trainer asked him who would rescue both of them if the trainee became too hurt to continue the rescue.
And that’s why I started my list the way I did. However, a case could be made for starting with the elderly since first responders and caregivers are presumably less vulnerable and therefore sufficient numbers of them will still be available. As a former field medic I prefer the Baywatch approach.
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