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Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

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Greta
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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by Greta » August 30th, 2018, 5:28 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote:
August 30th, 2018, 5:25 pm
Steve3007 wrote:
August 30th, 2018, 5:59 am
Having done it in the past, I'd say no, but only from the point of view of the person, not the heat sink, because heat sinks and the computers that they cool aren't sentient, and that links to the other topic about algorithms.
What would be a good algorithm to know when to step on a bug.
Algorithms behind the fight-or-flight response?

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by ThomasHobbes » August 30th, 2018, 5:35 pm

10 See bug
20 Gosub "bug ident"
30 rem Dangerous, Bg=1; Endangered species, Bg=2, Vermin, Bg=3
40 If bg=1 THEN run away
50 IF bg=2 THEN GOTO 100
60 IF Bg=3 THEN squish
100 If see new bug then GOTO 20 Else carry on walking.

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Greta
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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by Greta » August 30th, 2018, 6:01 pm

LOL Nice, incorporating the FOF response into items #1 and #3.

A suggested addition:

5 Count = 1
15 If N > 0 Then 25
25 If bug is interesting then 10

The loop continues until overridden by another algorithm :)

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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by Steve3007 » August 31st, 2018, 5:43 am

I think both of those versions of the pseudo-code/BASIC would have some compiler errors but it would be pedantic to point them out. I get the general idea. Two interesting things that they point out:

1. Infinite loops
2. The apparent absence of what most people consider to be the elements of ethics

Infinite loops are an interesting one. Humans don't generally get stuck in infinite loops of behaviour (except possibly when they get stuck for years on philosophy forums) because we have the valuable mechanism of boredom. The behaviours of some simpler creatures don't seem to have that. They often seem capable of repeating the same behaviour indefinitely until something in the external environment (e.g. getting squished) changes their behaviour.

And neither of those versions of the code have a line which amounts to: "don't squish the bug because I anthropomorphize it, then empathize with it, then assign it rights" or: "don't squish the bug because I have a general principle that, other things being equal, the destruction of life is a negative thing" or perhaps "I have a general principle that the infliction of suffering should be avoided and I think bugs are capable of suffering".

Maybe a couple of extra cases would do. Bg=4; Wriggles when squished in a way that is reminiscent of a human in pain, Bg=5; Looks kinda cute, like it should be in an animated movie.
Greta wrote:This brings a new question to mind: Re: Do cities think stepping on humans is right or wrong- why? :)
Perhaps the cities that survive and thrive best are the ones that are not averse to stepping on some humans if they deem it necessary, as illustrated by various loconic, deadpan, Raymond Chandler-esque statements about cities mostly delivered by Bogart.

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Greta
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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by Greta » August 31st, 2018, 8:51 am

Heh. I learned some basic Basic in the early 80s - the best part of four decades ago - and not used it since so I might have forgotten a little bit :)

Maybe some if/then statements ascertaining whether an entity moves in a manner that could be interpreted as volition and some more to determine whether the person was empathic enough for that to matter?

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by ThomasHobbes » August 31st, 2018, 12:17 pm

Do you think it is oaky to step on snowflake?

https://scarriet.files.wordpress.com/20 ... mage4.jpeg

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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by ThomasHobbes » August 31st, 2018, 12:21 pm

... errata
'oaky' is okay

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Thrylix
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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by Thrylix » October 24th, 2018, 9:25 am

I wouldn't step on that snowflake. It's pretty and unique.

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Greta
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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by Greta » October 24th, 2018, 6:05 pm

Each bug is unique too.

So might that leave our prettiness as the sole quality standing between us and the great boot of fate? I'd best start packing ... :)

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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by Belindi » October 25th, 2018, 5:43 am

It depends on why you step on the small creature. I am bemused by the disrespectful term 'bugs'.

There is a difference in scale between stepping on small insects and killing mountain goats in Scotland for fun but both activities seem to originate in the desire to control unto death.

BTW did any one read about that horrible American woman who did just that and apparently feels no remorse?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-45967845

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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by Georgeanna » October 25th, 2018, 6:17 am

Belindi wrote:
October 25th, 2018, 5:43 am
It depends on why you step on the small creature. I am bemused by the disrespectful term 'bugs'.

There is a difference in scale between stepping on small insects and killing mountain goats in Scotland for fun but both activities seem to originate in the desire to control unto death.

BTW did any one read about that horrible American woman who did just that and apparently feels no remorse?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-45967845
Words fail me.
The photograph of her and the stag looks stunningly beautiful - until you realise it is dead and she glories in it. She couldn't wait to eat it.
No doubt that proud head will be hanging on her walls. Pity she will never hang her head in shame. Or have criminal charges brought against her.
It's not illegal, apparently...
Time it was.

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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by LuckyR » October 26th, 2018, 1:41 am

Sociopathy (no empathetic ability) has an incidence if a little less than 2%. If someone has empathy for humans but none for animals, they don't have a diagnosis and the incidence must be at least 5%.
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by Steve3007 » November 1st, 2018, 5:31 am

Belindi wrote:BTW did any one read about that horrible American woman who did just that and apparently feels no remorse?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-45967845
Belindi and Georgeanna, I'm interested to know exactly what it is about that story of a huntress posing with her dead quarry that appals you. Is it one thing or a combination of things? Is it the revelling in death? is it the idea of taking pleasure in killing? Or is it more practical things like the potential danger to the species being hunted? Are you influenced at all by the recent news that we humans have now succeeded in killing off 60% of all the animals in the world? (Up from 40% in the last major news story that I read about this subject.)

If it's those more practical considerations, would you be swayed by an argument that culling individuals of a particular species doesn't necessarily create an existential threat to that particular species as a whole?

Steve3007
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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by Steve3007 » November 1st, 2018, 5:32 am

Have you ever read Hemingway's "The Old Man and the Sea"?

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Re: Do you think stepping on bugs is right or wrong- why?

Post by Georgeanna » November 1st, 2018, 5:55 am

Steve3007 wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 5:31 am
Belindi wrote:BTW did any one read about that horrible American woman who did just that and apparently feels no remorse?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-45967845
Belindi and Georgeanna, I'm interested to know exactly what it is about that story of a huntress posing with her dead quarry that appals you. Is it one thing or a combination of things? Is it the revelling in death? is it the idea of taking pleasure in killing? Or is it more practical things like the potential danger to the species being hunted? Are you influenced at all by the recent news that we humans have now succeeded in killing off 60% of all the animals in the world? (Up from 40% in the last major news story that I read about this subject.)

If it's those more practical considerations, would you be swayed by an argument that culling individuals of a particular species doesn't necessarily create an existential threat to that particular species as a whole?
It was an instantaneous revulsion at viewing a 'hardcore huntress' grinning in psychopathic glee as she posed beside her beautiful stag which looked alive, despite being very dead. I wasn't thinking of the danger to the species. As to culling - I think that depends on the reasons and how it is carried out.

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