What is morality?

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Mistery
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What is morality?

Post by Mistery »

I think its just whether something is acceptable or not by the overwhelming majority in a comunity. If someone controls these opinions then he decides what is good and what is bad. For example burning a cross is something evil in a christian comunity while to other comunities it means nothing.

If morality has any actual solid base it goes back in a prehistoric era where individuals abjusted their behaviour so it can be acceptable by others because they had to work together for their survival.

I don't think instincts are fixed to determine a solid base about morality. Just as you can teach a child to help a weak animal, you can teach it to torture a weak animal.
Uncertainty and pain
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Re: What is morality?

Post by Uncertainty and pain »

What if the predominant attitude present in the voices of the populace are at odds with the predominant actions and behaviors of the populace?

What if few really believed what they claimed to believe?

Arguably the truest vote for what the majority of people value comes from how the majority of people spend their coin or their time or their efforts. I doubt whatever comes out on top will be as noble as the arguments people pose about what they or their culture stands for.

As to morality, how should we treat one another? In a simple sense, isn't it about how individual or a collective answers that question in practice? Even the issue or acceptance or justification can be questioned - just because you can perform an action that everyone allows or perhaps doesn't even realize is happening, does that make it right?

And what if there are directly conflicting views within the populace? What if internationally the predominant view clashes with your countries, or your society's, or your community's or your families? Who are you loyal to?

And does someone need to be right? I would be willing to argue that it is possible that no one is right, and security from being held accountable for whatever you do, even if it is line with a higher power, doesn't need to be the goal of morality. It may even be an opposite of a desirable goal, in some regards.
Mistery
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Re: What is morality?

Post by Mistery »

ok slow down my english is not very good so make it simple.

If you say you believe something but you don't really believe it the only reason I can think you would do something like that is because in your society your true belief is something "not moral" so you lie about it. If all the people or the vast majority in a society thinks something is moral then it is bound that their actions based on this opinion will be moral (for them). For example for christians in middle ages killing people from another religion was something moral. Now the vast majority changed their opinion to the exact opposite and the same thing became immoral.

On how you should treat others is based on the opinion of the strong or the many in a certain comunity. For example hitting women is not immoral in some eastern countries while in western countries it is considered very immoral and so for them "it's not something that is correct" (I'm not implying that hitting women is ok for me it's not I'm making an extreme example because it is more simple to explain what I say).

It is up to you on who you are loyal it doesn't have anything to do with what I say. If you go against an international predominant view then your specific actions are considered "immoral" or "not correct".

Explain your last paragraph because I'm not sure I get it.
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Kevinandrew
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Re: What is morality?

Post by Kevinandrew »

Mistery wrote:I think its just whether something is acceptable or not by the overwhelming majority in a comunity. If someone controls these opinions then he decides what is good and what is bad. For example burning a cross is something evil in a christian comunity while to other comunities it means nothing.

If morality has any actual solid base it goes back in a prehistoric era where individuals abjusted their behaviour so it can be acceptable by others because they had to work together for their survival.

I don't think instincts are fixed to determine a solid base about morality. Just as you can teach a child to help a weak animal, you can teach it to torture a weak animal.
I totally agree - morality is simply based on what the majority of people like and dislike. What else could it be based on?
Its not the only answer - but it is One Answer. See my blog and read my book at http://www.kevinandrew1a.wordpress.com
Wilson
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Re: What is morality?

Post by Wilson »

My opinion is that morality is the accounting of what's right and what's wrong. But there's no absolute and universal moral truth. The ethical beliefs of a community are a valid measuring stick, but don't make the mistake of thinking that they have all the final answers. The ethical beliefs of an individual are also a valid measuring stick. The ethical beliefs of a religion are a valid system as well. But none of those are absolute, I'm afraid. The reason that a community's moral standards are important is that if you transgress, you can be in legal trouble. But they are no more valid, in an absolute sense, than your own views.
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ToSeekWisdom
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Re: What is morality?

Post by ToSeekWisdom »

This concept of morality is not my own but inspired by author C.S. Lewis

Scenario: One man has an orange while another man decides to take that orange against the other man's will. The first man gets upset and expects the other man to give the orange back. The first man is assuming that the other man lives by the same moral law of Right and Wrong and expects to receive some sort of apology or compensation. Therefore the first man has a Moral Law by which he lives. Now the question is, does the other man, the thief, live by any sort of similar Law? If when asked by the first man to either give back the orange, or compensate him with money or perhaps another orange, the second man would then reply, "To hell with your request." What is the second man implying? He knows the first man's desire for retribution without needing him to go into detail about the deep felt wronging due to his own crime. Since the thief knows the first man's feelings without him even saying why he wants retribution, then the thief understands the same Moral Law that the first man does. It lies within.

I honestly don't have any reason as of now to believe that Morality is based on cultural norms. I believe that it is a code written within every man and although the actions of morality may differ from culture to culture, the outcome is ultimately the same. If you do not believe their is an absolute Right and Wrong but all is relative, then I would encourage you to spend a night in camden NJ with your door unlocked and see what others believe.

I love forum topics such as this and you all are some intelligent people. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak and I cant wait to be inspired by further comments.
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Skycloudnz
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Re: What is morality?

Post by Skycloudnz »

Is morality the set of ideas that lead to the ends we want to achieve? So is it relative to our values and goals?
Spectrum
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Re: What is morality?

Post by Spectrum »

Mistery wrote:If morality has any actual solid base it goes back in a prehistoric era where individuals abjusted their behaviour so it can be acceptable by others because they had to work together for their survival.
I agree the above is the fundamental element of morality.
Morality is the establishment of a system of conduct such that the individual(s) act collectively for the optimal good of humanity and to ensure its preservation and continuation.
"Optimal good' results in no sufferings for anyone, regardless of actions taken.

There is no absolute truth, there are only perspectives - Nietzsche.
The above applies to moral truths.
But nevertheless, for an ethical system to work, we must establish 'absolutes' (even pseudo ones) to guide the implementation of the ethical system to ensure its objectives are met.

Another point is we need to deliberate on what is 'ethics' and 'morality' either to differentiate them or agree both are synonymous.

To be super efficient, an ethical system must comprised the Pure and Applied in complementarity.
Last edited by Spectrum on April 27th, 2014, 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
Wilson
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Re: What is morality?

Post by Wilson »

I also agree with Mistery. My belief is that evolution selected those hunter-gatherer groups in which the members were strong on average in cooperation, empathy, identification with the community, altruism, and a moral sense - all those go together. So we became more empathetic and cooperative and developed a sense of right and wrong because those groups whose members were deficient in those qualities, on average, tended to die off - starved, savaged by predators and other hunter-gatherer groups, and so on - and their genes didn't go forward as consistently as those from groups who worked together.

In other words, evolution gave us a moral sense. Not a specific set of moral standards, but the capacity for believing that some things are right and others are wrong. And for most of us, our moral beliefs are based on two things - 1) empathy and sympathy for others, and 2) rules (our own or those of our church, our state, our community, etc.).
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DoubtnThink
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Re: What is morality?

Post by DoubtnThink »

Morality is the set of standards of a community - for the greater good of the community. A set of rules. Ethics is what is universally good - and a person might have a set of ethical values that are different to the moral rules.

It was acceptable (ie. not morally wrong) in the times of Jesus to shun members of another tribe. Jesus set an ethical standard by the parable of the Good Samaritan. Many religions publicly profess that they obey the “Golden Rule” but an closer inspection of the laws, rituals, thinking and acts of a number of religions shows that this is not always so.

There were tribes in South America that lived by human sacrifice – the standard of the day. Killing a prisoner was not immoral. But universally it was not ethical – and ultimately the practice caused the extinction of some tribes when the corpses of the victims poisoned the well water. Poetic justice some might say.
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SadTeenagePoet
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Re: What is morality?

Post by SadTeenagePoet »

I believe it depends on the person.

People who grew up in certain places have different types of understandings of right or wrong. It's all about the current state of mind. Right now, we have morality because it is intertwined with our guilt or pride. If we were raised while being trained by our parents to not have shame, we probably wouldn't understand morality as well as the people who were taught what was good and what's bad.
Mistery
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Re: What is morality?

Post by Mistery »

DoubtnThink wrote:Morality is the set of standards of a community - for the greater good of the community. A set of rules. Ethics is what is universally good - and a person might have a set of ethical values that are different to the moral rules.

It was acceptable (ie. not morally wrong) in the times of Jesus to shun members of another tribe. Jesus set an ethical standard by the parable of the Good Samaritan. Many religions publicly profess that they obey the “Golden Rule” but an closer inspection of the laws, rituals, thinking and acts of a number of religions shows that this is not always so.

There were tribes in South America that lived by human sacrifice – the standard of the day. Killing a prisoner was not immoral. But universally it was not ethical – and ultimately the practice caused the extinction of some tribes when the corpses of the victims poisoned the well water. Poetic justice some might say.
For me it's the same thing call it morality or ethics whichever you like. Both are formed according to what most believe it's good or bad in a comunity.
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Skycloudnz
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Re: What is morality?

Post by Skycloudnz »

An individual can have their own moral beliefs which may be influenced by others but need not be the same as the majority of a society or group.So morality is still up to an individual based upon many inlluences.
Prof
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Re: What is morality?

Post by Prof »

I wrote on this topic in my booklet - BASIC ETHICS: A systematic approach (2014). See pp.29 ff. in that document, a link to which - free of charge - is found by clicking on the link in the signature below, and then sscrolling down to the very end of the selections listed there: it is the last link down.

The passage there is entitled What is Morality?

It is a term in a system. That means it is related to all the other terms - because the system is coherent and it has validity. The word "Morality" was selected as the most-appropriate label to apply to a specific relationship within the theory of Ethics presented there. It is a re-definition of an old concept.

What the o.p. describes I would designate as mores or ethos. What a culture believes (or what it practices) is not necessarily moral at all !

So check it out..... Click on the sigt. link, and then on the Basic Ethics link at the bottom of new page. You may wish to skip the technical stuff for my fellow Philosophy professors at the outset. So skip to page 10 of the manuscript to learn about the proposed theory. Its a new paradigm for Ethics.
To learn more on ethical topics, check out these references:onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/viewtop ... amp;t=6097
Mistery
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Re: What is morality?

Post by Mistery »

Ill look at it tomorow im too tired now but I can answer to you right now. What a culture believes might be not moral according to you, according to them it is.
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