Is Morality Subjective?
- Shadowed reality
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Is Morality Subjective?
- Verosa
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Re: Is Morality Subjective?
In the case you mentioned, I think that pencil has so little value compared to a wallet and that is why people see it as wrong. Wallets have money in, a resource that we need to live. It is like stealing someone's food shopping or something but pencils are disposable and have little value. That's where I think that subjective morals come in. Some people think it is bad to steal a pencil and others do not.
- Ambauer
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Re: Is Morality Subjective?
So say Hyde clobbers Carew to death in the street. Hyde harms Carew because he sets back Carew's interests (e.g. Carew probably had plans for that night), and Hyde violates Carew's rights (i.e. the right to life, the pursuit of happiness, etc.). So Hyde clobbering Carew to death in the street is morally wrong. On the other hand, stealing someone's pencil is not a harm, or morally wrong, because it is hardly a set back to her/his interests. This is at least a good start toward "objective" morality. Any other ideas of how we could get to objective morality?
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Re: Is Morality Subjective?
- Spiral Out
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Re: Is Morality Subjective?
There are critical flaws to consequentialism, utilitarianism and even, to some degree, intentionalism.
Is morality subjective? Morality is a concept that relates to a society as a whole as in the interaction of many different people and does not apply to individuals in isolation, so the answer is no, morality cannot be subjective.
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Re: Is Morality Subjective?
Even if morality is defined as the general consensus, that varies greatly from one society to the next, so even in that case, morality is subjective, in my view.
- Lagayscienza
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Re: Is Morality Subjective?
That's true, Spiral, but there are critical and well known problems with relativism. Consequentialism works best for everyday purposes in my opinion.Spiral Out wrote:There are critical flaws to consequentialism, utilitarianism and even, to some degree, intentionalism.
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- Spiral Out
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Re: Is Morality Subjective?
I semi-agree with that, Wilson, but what impetus does any individual in isolation have for acting morally, as you have defined it?Wilson wrote:In my opinion, Spiral Out, morality is subjective, and individual. Of course it all depends on one's definition of "morality". For me, morality is conscience - that inner voice that tells us what's right and wrong.
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Consequentialism, as a moral system, allows for unjustified murder and other crimes.Lagayscienza wrote:That's true, Spiral, but there are critical and well known problems with relativism. Consequentialism works best for everyday purposes in my opinion.
"If that "harmful" something in the murder scenario was the death of the person, then you have thus deemed death itself immoral.
In what way is death immoral?
What's the difference if someone is killed in their sleep or if they simply die in their sleep?
For Consequentialism, the consequence does not change, it is a constant. For Utilitarianism, the utility of pleasure increases without any suffering taking place.
As far as Consequentialism and Utilitarianism are concerned, the act of murder, if committed in carefully constructed ways, is completely ethical, just as you have applied it to the act of rape."
Thread: A Hypothetical Question Concerning Rape
- Mgrinder
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Re: Is Morality Subjective?
Relative to what? Relative to culture? Relative to what people think? Relative to the situation? When someone supports "moral relativism", I'm never sure what they think it is relative to?Spiral Out wrote:Morality must be relative in order to be consistent and functionally meaningful and effective.
Please elaborate.
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Re: Is Morality Subjective?
In my opinion, our moral sense is largely based on empathy - feeling ourselves in the position of others, even experiencing a tiny part of another person's pain, feeling bad inside for the suffering of others. I believe that both our capacity for empathy and our sense that some things are morally right and others wrong were instilled in our brains by evolution because they allowed us to cooperate with others in our group and not always act selfishly.Spiral Out wrote:I semi-agree with that, Wilson, but what impetus does any individual in isolation have for acting morally, as you have defined it?Wilson wrote:In my opinion, Spiral Out, morality is subjective, and individual. Of course it all depends on one's definition of "morality". For me, morality is conscience - that inner voice that tells us what's right and wrong.
- Spiral Out
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Re: Is Morality Subjective?
You're speaking in terms relating to the interaction between people, as in a society. There's no need for morality in isolation of others, therefore there's no individual morality, and thus no subjective morality to speak of.Wilson wrote:In my opinion, our moral sense is largely based on empathy - feeling ourselves in the position of others, even experiencing a tiny part of another person's pain, feeling bad inside for the suffering of others.
I'll reiterate my question to you, what impetus does any individual in isolation have for acting morally, as you have defined it?
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Re: Is Morality Subjective?
Spiral Out, Since an individual in isolation would already have ingrained moral ideas from childhood, and isolation is deemed from other humans, one would still have other life forms, be it a mouse or ant etc., to exercise moral behavior over, and in addition a moral code about oneself in regard to suicide.Spiral Out wrote:You're speaking in terms relating to the interaction between people, as in a society. There's no need for morality in isolation of others, therefore there's no individual morality, and thus no subjective morality to speak of.Wilson wrote:In my opinion, our moral sense is largely based on empathy - feeling ourselves in the position of others, even experiencing a tiny part of another person's pain, feeling bad inside for the suffering of others.
I'll reiterate my question to you, what impetus does any individual in isolation have for acting morally, as you have defined it?
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Re: Is Morality Subjective?
Moral within the Moral-Ethical System is absolute and independent. Because all humans has generic DNA, 'absolute' moral principles can be abstracted from humanity to act as a guide.
Meanwhile Ethics is relative and deal with the varying conditions within humanity. Ethical rules and maxims are adapted from the absolute moral principles and provisions made to accommodate varying human conditions.
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Re: Is Morality Subjective?
I took your question to mean, what causes individuals to act morally. And my answer was that we feel empathy for others, meaning that we feel their pain, and we don't want them to experience that pain, and we don't want to endure the lesser version of it in ourselves. And most of us want to behave morally, we want to feel that we are good people, we feel an obligation to act in moral ways and a duty to act in socially responsible ways. I think all those drives to act morally are the result of tendencies that evolution implanted in us. Of course some of us are more inclined to feel that moral obligation than others. Some don't feel it much at all.Spiral Out wrote: I'll reiterate my question to you, what impetus does any individual in isolation have for acting morally, as you have defined it?
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Re: Is Morality Subjective?
But, of course, "subjective" is a relative term as any other. Thus, some moralities could be considered "more objective", or "closer" to the absolute truth. But the more proper way to express this would just be to say that some moral principles have a more sensible and practical basis, while others are less sensible and practical, either because they're outdated and inapplicable to the new conditions in which they now exist, or else because they were originally based on mindless superstitions and taboos.
But whether more or less sensible/practical, they are all subjective constructs. If you want objectivity in relation to 'right and wrong', you will have to acquire conscience.
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