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Free will

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LuckyR
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Re: Free will

Post by LuckyR » October 26th, 2018, 2:01 am

chewybrian wrote:
September 28th, 2018, 10:56 am
LuckyR wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 4:01 pm
Not so much. There is a third path: namely that things (meaning neurologic decision making, not the behavior of billiard balls) can have a cause, but the cause is not predetermined.
Do you mean a religious explanation, or something else.? If something else, what exactly? Is the non-predetermined cause coming from outside the agent, or inside? Is there a free agent at all in this scenario?
Nope, not a cloud fairy. I mean a simply this, human decision making is caused by the actions of numerous neurons, whose conclusions while influenced by known factors, is partially unpredictable due to a level of complexity that defies computation. Identical in action to the behavior of the weather.
"As usual... it depends."

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Frewah
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Re: Free will

Post by Frewah » October 31st, 2018, 4:26 pm

Misty wrote:
September 21st, 2016, 7:33 pm
Humans have 'will.' It is not free, meaning without influence/persuasion. Human 'will' is made up of all the knowledge one absorbs coupled with how one perceives how they have been treated by all who came into contact with them, meaning ones emotional/mental health. Human 'will' = knowledge + emotional/mental health + influence/persuasion. If 'human will' was 'free' it would be free from influence/persuasion.
I think you’re spot on. A will without any influence woud be ”free” but would it with be useful? No better than using a dice. Seymour Cray came up with a free will algorithm for buying a car. Simply go to a nearby dealer and buy the car closest to the door where you came in. It could be a Yugo, it could be a Porsche. If you completely ignore factors that you don’t like such as your credit worthiness is limited and you think that your will is more fre, you will end up in trouble.

The pursuit of free will may explain why so many people are willing to go into debt just to get a new iphone or similar. Many don’t care if they get a lower credit score.

I think our will is free as in beer but not as in speech. It’s a gift that we have a will at all and something we can enjoy. But it could put you in real trouble if you say whatever you feel to just about anyone.

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Thrylix
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Re: Free will

Post by Thrylix » December 4th, 2018, 6:36 pm

Haha, not true. I can fart at will.

Wmhoerr
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Re: Free will

Post by Wmhoerr » January 5th, 2019, 8:54 am

It would be great if there was an answer. The problem is that free will is linked with the idea of determinism, which is in turn linked with possible randomness in quantum mechanics. And few people are brave enough to say that they completely understand quantum mechanics.

But l might have a solution. Before the big bang, it is thought by many that there was no matter, space or time. It this case, the big bang must be an effect without a cause. (The alternative is that if all effects have causes, then there was never a beginning and so the world has existed infinitely. Uumm!) That would make the big bang a random event, which means that determinism cannot be true and so there must be free will. What do you think?

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Felix
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Re: Free will

Post by Felix » January 6th, 2019, 2:02 pm

"It this case, the big bang must be an effect without a cause... That would make the big bang a random event."

Two different porcupines: random means having no apparent order or pattern, not having no apparent cause, although one must uncover the former to find the latter. The menu states that one must order the disorderly universe plate to get the side order of free will.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin

Fdesilva
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Re: Free will

Post by Fdesilva » January 12th, 2019, 1:28 am

Here is my take on Free Will. First of all we need to define what we mean by Free will. I will deal with one possible definitions.

Free-will : Ability to change an otherwise deterministic universe.

First let me make clear what I mean by a deterministic universe. Consider the state of every atom/molecule in the whole universe at some fixed time. Say 12AM UTC on the 1/1/2019 = t(a). The laws of physics/chemistry together with the state t(a) will determine the state of each of these atoms/molecules for all subsequent times. By the same token the same laws applied to the past will determine what the state of each atom/molecule was prior to t(a).

Now when we try to find the state of the universe in the past in this way, we discover the big bang or a single event at which the universe came into existence lets designate it as t(0). At this event the size of the universe was minuscule. Time and space came into existence for the first time at this event. The event itself is a singularity as far as the laws of physics and chemistry goes.

What that means is that this event is perfectly compatible with any subsequent state. That is the state of the universe at t(a) could have been something different to what it is and it would still be compatible with the big bang event t(0). However soon after the big bang once the universe has taken a state then all subsequent states will be determined by it.

Ok so lets imagine what we have as a model for the universe over space and time from t(0) to t(a). It will be a 4 Dimensional structure. Now free-will would be defined as the ability to change this 4 dimensional structure at t(a). That is you change the state at t(a) but in doing so you also change all states prior to that right up to t(0).

Now my hypotheses is that within the human mind acts of free-will work by changing the present but in doing so also changing the past. The degree of change to the past is minuscule due to the increase in entropy from past to present. What I do believe is that the human mind can change the curvature of space time just as mass does in creating gravity.

The main evidence I have for this is that humans are aware of simultaneous events. To be aware is to connect simultaneous events. Yet nothing within space time can connect simultaneous events. As such human awareness must come from outside space time thus enabling it to be changed 4 dimensionally as described above

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