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Self defense for civilian vs police

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Obi1
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Self defense for civilian vs police

Post by Obi1 » October 19th, 2016, 2:52 pm

With all you see on TV sometimes the grey areas are hard to come to a personal position on. One such area is the standard for self defense for a police officer vs for a civilian in an ambiguous situation.

For a civilian who's day to day activities likely do not include crossing paths with a great number of criminals I suppose the law stays on the side of caution. If someone has you cornered or is approaching you, you do not preemptively disable them.

For a police officer who encounters a large number of criminals and is also in uniform and there is an understanding this person's duty is to detain criminals, they are at a much higher risk for being assaulted by a criminal. If police used the same caution as civilians in ambiguous situations they would put them self at great risk on a daily basis and no one would want to be an officer.

This is how I rationalize the difference in what a police officer can do to stay safe and what a civilian can. Anyone have thoughts on this?

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ThamiorTheThinker
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Re: Self defense for civilian vs police

Post by ThamiorTheThinker » October 25th, 2016, 11:13 am

I don't really see a controversial or otherwise conflicting set of views to be had on this matter. Are you sure there is even a problem here?

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LuckyR
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Re: Self defense for civilian vs police

Post by LuckyR » October 27th, 2016, 1:21 pm

Obi1 wrote:With all you see on TV sometimes the grey areas are hard to come to a personal position on. One such area is the standard for self defense for a police officer vs for a civilian in an ambiguous situation.

For a civilian who's day to day activities likely do not include crossing paths with a great number of criminals I suppose the law stays on the side of caution. If someone has you cornered or is approaching you, you do not preemptively disable them.

For a police officer who encounters a large number of criminals and is also in uniform and there is an understanding this person's duty is to detain criminals, they are at a much higher risk for being assaulted by a criminal. If police used the same caution as civilians in ambiguous situations they would put them self at great risk on a daily basis and no one would want to be an officer.

This is how I rationalize the difference in what a police officer can do to stay safe and what a civilian can. Anyone have thoughts on this?
Oh hell yes. You are correct that civilians and LEOs are different. They have different experience, capabilities, training and expectations. Having acknowledged that, they both share the goal of making it home safely at the end of the day, especially if they have acted reasonably. Recently, there has been more attention placed in this area. What do we know? Well the number of LEOs killed by gunfire is dropping slowly and is between 100-150 per year. The number of civilians shot and killed by LEOs is about 3 per day. Obviously there are way, way fewer police than citizens, so a straight numerical comparo is probably less important but the trends are disturbing and the individual stories are downright frightening.
"As usual... it depends."

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h_k_s
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Re: Self defense for civilian vs police

Post by h_k_s » November 25th, 2018, 10:21 pm

[quote=Obi1 post_id=276649 time=1476903136 user_id=46629]
With all you see on TV sometimes the grey areas are hard to come to a personal position on. One such area is the standard for self defense for a police officer vs for a civilian in an ambiguous situation.

For a civilian who's day to day activities likely do not include crossing paths with a great number of criminals I suppose the law stays on the side of caution. If someone has you cornered or is approaching you, you do not preemptively disable them.

For a police officer who encounters a large number of criminals and is also in uniform and there is an understanding this person's duty is to detain criminals, they are at a much higher risk for being assaulted by a criminal. If police used the same caution as civilians in ambiguous situations they would put them self at great risk on a daily basis and no one would want to be an officer.

This is how I rationalize the difference in what a police officer can do to stay safe and what a civilian can. Anyone have thoughts on this?
[/quote]

State law in the USA spells out what is legal behavior for civilians, security guards, and police.

All are required to show the same level of care -- applying only such proportionate reasonable force as is necessary in the situation.

The main difference is that police are further impowered to shoot fleeing suspects based on their own judgment for the protection of society. Civilians and security guards may not shoot anyone who is fleeing, unless they are fleeing with a kidnapped person.

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Thrylix
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Re: Self defense for civilian vs police

Post by Thrylix » December 4th, 2018, 9:35 am

Civilians should be allowed a bit more latitude in defending themselves than police.

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Spiral Out
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Re: Self defense for civilian vs police

Post by Spiral Out » December 11th, 2018, 8:53 pm

Every person is allowed by law to use lethal force if they believe their life to be in danger, but that will be different for each person, each situation and each set of specific circumstances. An elderly or disabled person may feel their life is in danger where a young or able-bodied person may not. Self-defense is just that, defense of the self. If one can show reasonable evidence or valid argument that they were justified in the belief that their life was in peril, then they may legally use lethal force in that capacity.
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LuckyR
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Re: Self defense for civilian vs police

Post by LuckyR » December 12th, 2018, 4:58 pm

Reality check : the vast majority of self defense doesn't involve lethal force
"As usual... it depends."

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Empiricist-Bruno
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Re: Self defense for civilian vs police

Post by Empiricist-Bruno » January 13th, 2019, 12:33 pm

Sex workers are at great risk too. Maybe they should be given more latitude too, just like cops. Well, maybe not but my point is that having a risky job should not mean you can make others more at risk from you.
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LuckyR
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Re: Self defense for civilian vs police

Post by LuckyR » January 14th, 2019, 1:59 am

Empiricist-Bruno wrote:
January 13th, 2019, 12:33 pm
Sex workers are at great risk too. Maybe they should be given more latitude too, just like cops. Well, maybe not but my point is that having a risky job should not mean you can make others more at risk from you.
Unfortunately for your idea, public policy is made by legislators whose motivation is to please voters and donors and sex workers tend to be neither.
"As usual... it depends."

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