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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Posted: November 27th, 2018, 6:40 am
by Eduk
Yes as Steve pointed out even the ethics is complicated.
Trust is another complicated issue. Politicians have always liked, for example, it's just that they are getting called on it a lot more now. People have always had ridiculous beliefs, it's just they are getting highlighted much more now.
For me I think if you are armed with basic critical thinking. Protect yourself against unconscious persuasion. Then there is a lot of great information out there, it's never been better.

Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Posted: November 27th, 2018, 2:26 pm
by h_k_s
Greta wrote:
November 26th, 2018, 7:12 pm
I would think that intensive factory farming of chickens and pigs would measure strongly in terms of calories v land used.

However, pigs are so intelligent that, in terms of suffering and deprivation, what we are doing seems roughly equivalent to keeping small children in those conditions in cages. I don't eat pig at all, even free range, because my disgust with factory farming has spoiled it all for me. It also should be said that the hormone infused, unhealthy meats being sold from these producers will keep people alive but will be less healthy than meats from animals that are not chronically sick and depressed.

I find the whole situation very sad, as I find the entire schema of life needed to destroy other life to survive for that matter (if a little less so). If we are "born into sin" then this is the fault line.
Greta I agree with you about pork. I don't touch the stuff. But I cannot resist bacon -- either straight with eggs or on pizza.

Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Posted: November 27th, 2018, 7:17 pm
by Greta
H, I have a special issue with meats like bacon due to the carcinogenic nitrites. Also, the pig products sold in eateries comes from cheap factory farmed pig rather than civilised farming methods (unless advertised as free range or organic).

Sorry to be a killjoy. I used to love supreme pizzas and pork crackling. I have had to let them go but, on the plus side, since stopping I now don't find myself attracted to the meat and find the smell a little nauseating, thus it's no longer a sacrifice. It was a damn sight easier to quit than cigarettes :)

Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Posted: November 28th, 2018, 5:38 pm
by h_k_s
On a more practical/pragmatic line of thought on this issue of eating animals, it is worth bearing in mind that we could not feed all the people now living if we did not put all acreage to productive use in producing food. Some acreage is unsuited for farming and therefore only lends itself to grazing. This is how you justify the raising of livestock such as beef cattle and sheep for slaughter.

Most beef however is a byproduct of the dairy industry. The newborn males are not good for much other than slaughter. It is the females that are most valuable for dairy.

And sheep can graze almost anywhere even hills or mountains. Their meat is also a biproduct of the wool industry.

So on the ethical grounds of not being wasteful, the justification for some consumption of meat is indeed justified.

Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Posted: November 29th, 2018, 9:10 pm
by Greta
In an ideal world the land that's used for grazing would be gradually enriched but the horse may have bolted there - a few thousand years ago.

Our omnivorous ways played a major role in the evolution of our large, energy-hungry brains because energy from meat is more concentrated.

Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Posted: November 29th, 2018, 11:15 pm
by h_k_s
Greta wrote:
November 29th, 2018, 9:10 pm
In an ideal world the land that's used for grazing would be gradually enriched but the horse may have bolted there - a few thousand years ago.

Our omnivorous ways played a major role in the evolution of our large, energy-hungry brains because energy from meat is more concentrated.
I have read studies in Malthusianism that as we approach a 10 billion population on the Earth that the only meat that most people will be able to afford is farmed fish and chickens. The wool industry would provide some meat, as would the dairy industry, but it would become as expensive as caviar.

I envision in those days having a rabbit farm in my back yard with 2 breeding pairs. While I would love my 4 breeders, I would not have a lot of regrets slaughtering the younger bunnies for meat.

Another possibility would be a tilapia pond in my swimming pool.

My ethics on the matter would be that I need protein to survive, and with the expense of buying meat, it would be more economical to breed my own source of meat.

Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Posted: November 30th, 2018, 12:39 am
by Greta
I found out that I am a flexitarian, where I eat vegetarian during the week and have meat with a few meals on weekends.

Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Posted: November 30th, 2018, 4:54 am
by Eduk
Flexitarian, I must remember that.

Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Posted: November 30th, 2018, 6:17 pm
by Greta
It was a mild irritant that every single time I'd order a veg meal I'd be asked if I was a vegetarian. So I'd explain that I only ate meat on weekends and I do that in an attempt to eat as much meat as I need to be healthy, but no more, without having to otherwise think about it.

Now I can say, "No. I'm a flexitarian". People tend to like you best when they have a tidy label for you.