Greta wrote: ↑July 17th, 2018, 8:41 pm
It came from the implications in your post, later confirmed by you referring to what I am saying as psychopathic.
I said specifically that I did not think you were a psychopath.
Consider this: according to you, simply discussing something without providing emotional display behaviour cues is psychopathic.
Could you show me where I said that. I don't think I would say that, certainly not as a general rule.
No, I often run into trouble because I absolutely REFUSE to engage in those display behaviours, to emote on cue because it's expected to prove that you care. Ugh. People can trust that I care, and if they do not and cannot glean that from my posts, they are too paranoid too worry about.
I caan't see you. I don't know what displays or not you have. I responded to what seemed like the presentation of a philosophy that saw mourning and even emotional reactions to violence as irrational. Since these are merely an exchange of energy.
Rapes and murders are largely the acquisition of energy by one entity from another. I didn't answer the question directly because it was that unenlightening and, as noted above, I don't like boring ritual in conversation.
Why dislike it? It is just an exchange of energy. Why the displa of emotion, in the word
'dislike'-
IOW all these acts are simply exchanges of energy. Why should one be bothered by them
but then boring rituals of conversation, that you dislike.
I raised mourning because you raised the rape of your wife so I assumed that, in such a scenario, there would be some mourning involved.
It might later, yes. IN the moment of noticing it, other emotions would predominate, I think.
Since when is a chaotic state "pathological"?
You referred to it as interfering with the capacity to function normally. That is what diseases, disorders and medical conditions do.
Obviously human states vary from the highly focused to the relatively chaotic and that has NOTHING to do with pathology.
That may be true, but when something interferes with its ability to function normally you are talking about a kind of pathology. In any case you seemed to consider mourning to be negative and compared it to being sick....
So, to that end ... mourning is a relatively chaotic state in an organism that interferes with its capacity to operate normally. As with any depressed, sick or saddened state there are clear signals we have evolved so others in a group to recognise their distress and allow them recuperation by reducing demands on them for a while.
my emphasis. I don't think my characterization of your description of mourning as pathological is at all unfair, here grouped with a psychological disorder, depression, and the word 'sick'.
Oh for fnuk's sake, man, ease off on the paranoia!
I find this pretty poor coming from a site admin. First it wouldn't be an example of paranoia but 2) more importantly it is to the man. When talking about harsh human interactions you brought up us not mourning or caring about the macrophages dying inside us. I asked!!!!!!!! if you really were trying to say that we shouldn't have strong emotional reactions to violence between humans since we do not care what happens to macrophages. I think it was a fair read of what you were saying, BUT I ASKED if it was really what you intended.
I am simply pointing out an interesting situation where our relationship with the Earth in many ways echoes our microbes' relationship with us, in that being part of "the one" does not necessarily mean that "the one" of which we are part will even notice us, let alone care.
Ssure but you said this in response to examples where humans are interacting with other humans.
No, you are just demanding display behaviours from me and I see no need to obey.
I have at not point demanded you display behaviors.
It seems you are thinking of and describing a particular person you met online. Many of us would have met "all is one" fanatics online here and there. They tend to be so out of touch that they are usually not worth rebutting anyway.
Further, your weak straw man attack on me regarding "exchange of energy" has not been thought through at all - as if the noticing the exchanges of energy in nature precludes the noticing of aesthetic and emotional content. Get real.
Great, I am glad you are not one of these fanatics. I am not sure what point you were making then with that these things are merely exchanges of energy, and this also holds for corporations and even interpersonal interactions that many deem negative.
I already made clear why human and macrophages have different moral import - nervous systems and brains. It's very, very simple. If entities feel something or are loved/valued by a feeling entity, then ethics apply, if not, then other considerations apply.
So then the macrophages are not something we should be concerned about. I am not sure what bringing them up in the context was intended to point out.
But I didn't mourn my dead macrophages - I just absorbed and excreted them. As do you. We are almost as inhuman in our attitude towards our macrophages as giant governments and mutlinational companies are towards their human resource units!
We wouldn't then, given what you say now, be inhuman in reaction to the deaths of our macrophages, because they do not have brains and nervous systems. So I am not sure why you worded it this way.
or here...
I asked
OK, let's say all is one, the mystics are correct. A man is raping my wife.
Everything is one.
What conclusions can I draw from that about his actions, my reactions, what to do, and how my various options - I discover this happening - should be ehtically evaluated?
you responded
Yes, everything is one and what is happening is an exchange of energy and genetic material performed with a parasitic dynamic. At more basic levels of biology the line between mating and eating is blurred. Nature doesn't care any - it's just exchange of energy.
By the same token, we don't mourn when some rogue fungi defeats the first macrophage encountered.
Image
Stuff happens. I mean, like, go you little macrophages! I'm right in your corner! But if you get into bother you are on your own. All any of us can do for the helpful little predatory blobs that act as our immune systems is to eat and live well and avoid too much stress.
It seemed like, given my very specific question of how this idea applies in relation to a man raping my wife, that we don't mourn macrophages, everything is an exchange of energy, so...
it sure seemed like you were saying there was no reason to get worked up about the rape.
So it does our macrophages about as much good to be part of "all one" (person) as it does to be assaulted by a fellow denizen of the pale blue dot.
Now you may not have meant that, but then I don't think you answered my question. I did my best and I don't think it was an unfair take since I assumed you were answering my question.
I did my best with that and for that I get called paranoid, accused of demanding a display of behaviors, whereas it seemed like you were seeing emotional reactions in others, which would include me, as pathological. You seem to find it absurd that I took you as saying mourning was pathological, but you said it was like being depressed and sick and something OUTSIDE normal functioning and/or something that interferes with normal functioning.
That sure seemed like you judging other people's reactions. When I quesiton this this is taken as me demanding YOU to behave in certain ways. I don't have the slightest idea how you behave, I don't think I made any demand regarding specific behavior YOU should have.
Perhaps as a site admin you could read this exchange as see if my responses might not be paranoid, but simply confused by what now seems like confusing communication on your part. Besides, it could not be paranoia. I do not think you or anyone else is plotting against me. I disliked what I considered to be judgments of emotions that I consider normal. Perhaps you do not judge them negatively, but this mistake - and perhaps one your own communication contributed to - on my part would not bet paranoia.
Mull this over or not, but I am out of this discussion.